Vortex is an unmitigated disaster

[Grestorn]

I'm a long time NMM user and I really wanted to try Vortex but I'm put off from the start.

First off, I'm advanced computer user and picky about where I place things. I downloaded the custom location version because I avoid sticking things in "Program Files" (it depends on the type of program) and I certainly am not putting mods in "My Documents", "My Games" and all of that.

For me, that's already a contradiction. Being an "advanced computer user" and then fighting standard Windows mechnisms just doesn't fit.

 

More like "I've done it always like I wanted, and f*ck Microsoft to tell me where to put my stuff." And of course "I don't care to check if there's an official way to put Documents onto another place if I don't want them on C:"

 

I guess, in Linux, you also put all your data outside of /home/<username> because f*** those guys forcing you to put your data in some predefined folder...

 

Anyways, before even attempting to migrate mods from NMM to Vortex, it gives me warnings about "mod deployment". So I click and see symlinks (etc) and hardlinks (etc) with no real explanation as to what they are, why they are used and why Vortex needs to do this.

Advanced Computer Users would know what hardlinks are.

 

NMM used hardlinks, too, by the way.

 

It's not Vortex's purpose to explain computer technology. For why this is used, check Vortexes wiki pages:

http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Deployment_Methods

 

Also there's no explanation of why "x or y" can't be done for a gamebro engine game. Why does the engine even matter here? I will not be using Vortex to launch games, simply to install mods. I see hardlink and can only assume (because there is no depthful explanation) that it wants to use some kind of virtualization. Why? Why not just install the mod to the Data directory of my game? Why does it need to create a hardlink to that directory? I partition my drive into a few different sections and I'd prefer to keep my (downloaded) mods on my "storage" directory and my games on somewhere else. Why does it need to specifically store mods in the same drive (partition) as my game?

Because it's a bad idea to copy files into the game directly. You "pollute" the game installation, you have no way to know what was part of the original game and what's added by the modding tool.

Also, you would not easily be able to change the install order (which mod provides which file) in case multiple mods provide the same file.

And, finally, it would be a waate of HD space. Using links allows the file to be listed at several places on your HD while only taking space once.

 

By the way (once again), NMM also used hardlinks to "blend" in files from its "Virtual Install" folder into the Data directory. Never noticed that? Well, you should have, as an advanced computer user.

 

Maybe this is 100% suitable for those that aren't as concerned where things are placed as I am.

Quite the opposite, actually. This helps keeping things organized, for both advanced and casual user. Don't try to fight it, understand it, and use its advantages. Just like with the Windows standard folders. Fighting the system will always cause you a lot of sorrow, comes with disadvantages and problems. It's just not a good idea.

 

Also what does "deployment" mean in this case other than "installing mods"? Thanks for your time.

Unless you deploy a mod, it resides in the Mod Staging Folder only. Deploying means, that its files are linked into the game's Data directory. Not necesserily ALL the mod's files, depending on the install order rules, some of the files might be taken from other mods.

 

In NMM you'd have to reinstall the mods if you want to change the order in which the files are overwritten. In Vortex you can simply change a install order rule and Deploy again. Very simple.

 

Also "Purge Mods" will clean up your whole game installation. All mods installed via Vortex will be removed without a trace.

And a click on "Deploy" will reinstall them all - in the correct order and with the correct files.

 

Isn't that beautiful? I think it is.

[SimbAhsoka]

rmm200: I installed everything completely new and started a complete new game.

[Netherworks]

LOL.

Honestly, there's really no harm in making your own folders for your own documents and putting your documents there. There's no mandate requiring you to put anything in "my documents". It's fine to "suggest" a unified place for things. It's not really any kind of requirement though. I know how to move the documents folder safely (which creates a hardlink btw, I didn't say I didn't know it was, that was your assumption, I simply wanted to know why Vortex wanted to make one. There's a info button that and not everyone assumes to go search for a wiki).

You feel it's a bad idea for whatever reason but people directly things to their data folder (and *gasp* other places...) all the time.

"Quite the opposite, blah, blah" - again your assumption/assertion. Don't really need or want your friendly advice on how to handle my business.

I just raised my concerns about the software, that's all. Really didn't need all the other nonsense.

Rather than purge, one could also just back up their base installation, zip/rar it up and store it somewhere and unpack it if needed. Sure, the purge is a nice option but certainly Vortex could have an issue or a bug during that process, I mean NMM certainly wasn't bug free. Things happen.

Anyways, enjoy stomping around your thread or whatnot. :P

[Deleted19202344User]

Disagree OP . Been off the site for at least 6 months , jumped on today and within 30 vminutes was up and running . This is so much easier to utilise even a moron like me and get 80+ mods running with no conflicts . I could never do that before with NMM (I still love it just Vortex is easier for me to wrap my head around) so not sure what OP has done wrong … maybe watch the YouTube guides .

 

PS whoever made/contributed to Vortex thank you .

[Guest deleted34304850]

not being funny, but you made a post full of legitimate concerns that you had, which was answered accurately, and your reply is this;

 

Don't really need or want your friendly advice on how to handle my business.

 

If that is the case, then why did you make your original post, given the whole ethos of this forum is to discuss vortex? I am really missing what your goal was here, unless it was just to bash a tool that you don't like because you don't understand what it's going to do and how it's going to do it?

[Grestorn]

LOL.

 

Honestly, there's really no harm in making your own folders for your own documents and putting your documents there. There's no mandate requiring you to put anything in "my documents". It's fine to "suggest" a unified place for things. It's not really any kind of requirement though.

Correct. And that's exactly what Vortex does. The DEFAULT is in the profile, but you can set the path to whereever your want. Nobody said anything else.

 

I know how to move the documents folder safely (which creates a hardlink btw, I didn't say I didn't know it was, that was your assumption, I simply wanted to know why Vortex wanted to make one. There's a info button that and not everyone assumes to go search for a wiki).

No, it's not a hardlink, it's just a setting in your profile (you can set most profile directories to point to another driver with "Change Location").

 

You cannot move the profile itself or AppData, however, unless you use a hardlink. Which is REALLY discouraged, by the way.

 

You complain but you don't want to read the documentation, which is prominently linked into Vortex itself by the way. Telling.

 

You feel it's a bad idea for whatever reason but people directly things to their data folder (and *gasp* other places...) all the time.

This sentence doesn't even make sense. And I don't see the point in regards with Vortex at all. People can put their data wherever they want, of course, noone denies that. I just said, that FORCING certain stuff to be handled other than the OS does it by default, is a bad idea.

 

"Quite the opposite, blah, blah" - again your assumption/assertion. Don't really need or want your friendly advice on how to handle my business.

But even though you're complaining about a product, you don't even understand it in the slightest. Well done.

 

I just raised my concerns about the software, that's all. Really didn't need all the other nonsense.

That's the way to get help and attention, well done!

 

Rather than purge, one could also just back up their base installation, zip/rar it up and store it somewhere and unpack it if needed.

Wow, what a great alternative. Tannin, throw away all your work, Netherworks came up with a solution, that's infintely better than yours! Backuping up and restoring your clean installation! That's so much better! That you couldn't think of THAT solution!

 

Sure, the purge is a nice option but certainly Vortex could have an issue or a bug during that process, I mean NMM certainly wasn't bug free. Things happen.

Ah, now the solution is bad because there could be a bug. I understand. That's why it's better to place the files directly into the game directory. Obvious.

 

AGAIN, since you obviously didn't read it:

NMM USES LINKS, TOO!

 

Anyways, enjoy stomping around your thread or whatnot. :tongue:

I only see one person stomping here.

 

 

All you wanted was to rant and flame around, but instead, you fell flatly on your nose, because all your issues were just caused by yourself. No go and pity yourself.

[Tannin42]

I'm a long time NMM user and I really wanted to try Vortex but I'm put off from the start.

First off, I'm advanced computer user and picky about where I place things. I downloaded the custom location version because I avoid sticking things in "Program Files" (it depends on the type of program) and I certainly am not putting mods in "My Documents", "My Games" and all of that.

You are free to change the directories where Vortex stores mods, it's not like Vortex forces you to use AppData. But in AppData we have a directory that we know exists and is writable and if you want custom directory requires to be configured.

So we have two choices: a) use a reasonable default, allow users to choose something custom if they want or b) force everyone to choose something custom.

The second option is the one that forces something upon people, the first one is simpler for users who adhere to standards (set by MS, not by us btw) and still gives you all the options.

How that is offputting I don't understand.

 

Anyways, before even attempting to migrate mods from NMM to Vortex, it gives me warnings about "mod deployment". So I click and see symlinks (etc) and hardlinks (etc) with no real explanation as to what they are,

Wrong, Vortex contains in-depth explanations about what these link types are and a comparison regarding pros/cons.

 

why they are used and why Vortex needs to do this. Also there's no explanation of why "x or y" can't be done for a gamebro engine game. Why does the engine even matter here?

Because it does! The engine decides how it opens files. The Gamebryo devs have explicitly opted out of supporting symbolic links (they work by default for any application but you can opt out)

 

I will not be using Vortex to launch games

Who cares?

 

, simply to install mods. I see hardlink and can only assume (because there is no depthful explanation) that it wants to use some kind of virtualization. Why? Why not just install the mod to the Data directory of my game? Why does it need to create a hardlink to that directory?

When you put the real files into the data dir, files get really overwritten when there is a file conflict and then if you want to change something that affects which files should be there (e.g. remove a mod that has previously overwritten something else) you either have a broken mod install - which you manually have to repair - or the Mod Manager has to extract the file from the archive - which requires you to keep all archives around and can be very slow.

By using virtualisation we can reliably and very quickly disable mods cleanly, change their order, switch between profiles, restore the game directory to a vanilla state.

 

I partition my drive into a few different sections and I'd prefer to keep my (downloaded) mods on my "storage" directory and my games on somewhere else. Why does it need to specifically store mods in the same drive (partition) as my game?

 

It needs the extracted mods to be on the same drive because that's how hard links work (and again: gamebryo games refuse to work with symlinks) - it doesn't need the mod archives to be on that drive. No one said it did.

If Vortex was extracting mods directly to the game directory then the files would be on the partition of the game anyway.

 

Maybe this is 100% suitable for those that aren't as concerned where things are placed as I am. Maybe I'm just weird (which is fine by me). But until there are some more flexible configuration options, I'll just stick with NMM for now. I would be interested to know why it needs symlinks or hardlinks and what exactly the purpose is here if all you want to do is just use it install and enable/disable mods.

 

See above.

 

Also what does "deployment" mean in this case other than "installing mods"? Thanks for your time.

 

That too is explained inside Vortex. Deployment is the step of applying the links to the game whereas installing installs the mods into a separate directory.

[qazxcer76]

I tried Vortex..only for it to tell me that most of the mods I once used on NMM interefered with one another...Give you an example..The mod unlimited Guards has 'wild edits' I believe it said.Was suggested I clean it with Tes Edit...out of curiousity..I went to the mod page..says on there..Do not clean with Tes Edit...so now what?....We can only use certain mods that Vortex says are ok?

[Netherworks]

Thank you for you insight on what is going on. Maybe I should have been more gentle in how I posted my concerns, or it seems it was worded in a way that was taken as being outright hostile. Not the case.

[UrizenDe]

I tried Vortex..only for it to tell me that most of the mods I once used on NMM interefered with one another...Give you an example..The mod unlimited Guards has 'wild edits' I believe it said.Was suggested I clean it with Tes Edit...out of curiousity..I went to the mod page..says on there..Do not clean with Tes Edit...so now what?....We can only use certain mods that Vortex says are ok?

Messages like this are generated by LOOT, not Vortex. If the mod author says not to clean it, and LOOT does, go with the mod author. Just use it but don´t clean it. Vortex won´t prevent you from doing that.