Friendly fire mechanics for npcs?

[gob2]

To be clear, I am talking about friendly fire between npcs only, in other words it doesn't involve the player at all. More specifically, how does friendly fire work between npcs? I've had times where I'd swear this or that npc is supposed to die from getting hit by their teammate, and it seems they take almost no damage. I could be mistaken, meaning I just observed it wrong, but are there inherent immunities working under the hood? Things like same-faction damage reduction or something?

[Moraelin]

What NPCs are we talking about, exactly, because not all are created equal. Your settlers, for example, are "protected", meaning only YOU can kill them. As in, even if Ada has the beheader helm and exploded theoir freakkin head right off, they still can't die unless you give the coup de grace. Dito for Covenant population, some quest NPCs (e.g., those guys you need to kill in the Silver Shroud quest), etc.

[gob2]

What NPCs are we talking about, exactly, because not all are created equal. Your settlers, for example, are "protected", meaning only YOU can kill them. As in, even if Ada has the beheader helm and exploded theoir freakkin head right off, they still can't die unless you give the coup de grace. Dito for Covenant population, some quest NPCs (e.g., those guys you need to kill in the Silver Shroud quest), etc.

 

I'm talking about garden variety, basic encounters. Raiders, mirelurks, etc. Not the Protected or Essential flags, but just basic mechanics. I don't have any definitive evidence, so maybe I'm just paranoid.

[metaphorset]

Um... remember the hunters from Skyrim? They couldn't hit a barn door with their bows, even if it would have been 2 meters away. Nice way to get lots of arrows early on though, because most of them would just drop to the ground after a few meters of airtime.

Some of the Random Encounters in FO4 are protected, like Ness for example. She randomly gets into shootouts with my caravan guys. Last time I met her was near Drumlin Diner. I grabbed a bucket of popcorn, got myself comfy on the big sign at the crossroads and kept watching for about 15 real-life minutes. It's going on and on and on....

 

That's "Radiant AI" - "it just works".

Edited November 12, 2018 by metaphorset

[zanity]

In games like these there are solid code reasons why it is a bad idea to do combat purley based off in-world 'physics' (what the characters- bosses, NPCs, the player etc) are seemingly doing. A certain amount of 'cheating' is common in the code to cause what APPEARS to happen to match player expectations.

 

A good example of this is how many 'followers' do not actually 'follow' you if the game thinks they are out of the sight of the player, but are constantly RESPAWNED in the vicinity of the player (behind obviously so the player doesn't see the 'respawn').

 

In a 'mob' battle (I believe these now happen sometimes in the new Assassin's Creed: Odyssey) you are NOT witnessing any form of real simulation. But the game designers will tweak the mechanisms in play until the gamer seems to get a pleasing result.

 

'Friendly' Fire has always been a hot-button topic cos many 'serious' gamers think they want it for 'reality', but the devs usually find a full-on FF system is disasterous for gameplay. Expecially for spammy region effect weapons like spells, fire and explosions.

 

And game devs want their games to be FUN, not machines that meet the needs of obssesive compulsive types.

 

I think Fallout 4 went to extremes in making things easy for the devs. So raids on settlements are always totally pointless- and I don't ever thinking that there was any 'realism' in the combat between attackers and defenders- I always assumed FF was fully disabled for the NPCs.

 

Skyrim seemed a LOT better (and more ambitious) in this regard- attacking a bandit camp with a good follower seemed to actually have 'weight'.

 

Honestly I don't think these types of question have useful meaning for Fallout 4. Ambitious combat modders tried, in the early days, to increase combat situations to match those seen in Fallout 3, but soon gave up in disgust as Fallout 4 would rapidly become unstable- especially if the extra spawed combat NPC's persisted in cells the player left- simply running thru downtown Boston with such a mod active would soon crash the game.

 

Fallout 4 is very very dumbed down compared to Skyrim and Fallout 3. There is good reason why all the good follower mods exist for Skyrim. And FO76 devolves even more compared to Fallout 4, with vastly worse AI and combat.

 

Honestly I think Fallout 4 is best enjoyed for what it is, and NOT questioned or poked. Modders had high hopes for the game when it came out, based on their Skyrim experience. But these modders left disappointed. There is good reason the great Fallout 4 mods are largely cosmetic.

 

So I cared about FF issues in Skyrim. In Fallout 4 I cared not one whit, for I understood how fundamentally hopeless the combat framework was in the new game. And I just played it as the Beth devs intended- as a vastly more 'casual' game than Skyrim.

[jdrfox]

There are new mods these days that can make Fallout 4 combat pretty intense, that turns off FF and protected status on most actors, increase patrol sizes, increase lethality, etc.

[Moraelin]

You also have to remember that a lot of NPCs are immune to their own attacks. Probably the most trivial example are Atom cultists, who use radiation attacks, but are as good as invulnerable to radiation.

[jdrfox]

Good for them! I can't even count the number of times Preston threw a frag grenade at me whenever he loses his original target. He's like "s#*!, I have this live grenade, and my target just died... Oh, I know!"

Edited November 19, 2018 by jdrfox

[HeyYou]

Good for them! I can't even count the number of times Preston threw a frag grenade at me whenever he loses his original target. He's like "s***, I have this live grenade, and my target just died... Oh, I know!"

And this is why I NEVER give 'companions' area of effect' weapons. (grenades and rocket launchers being right at the top of the list.......) Of course, I don't like companions in any event. They tend to get in the way, and cause more problems than they are worth.