What makes a good follower?

[Lerigonith]

m hoping this is the right thread here...

 

So I'm finally making my own mod after dabbling in CK over the years, and I decided after my recent playthroughs of Skyrim that I wanted to make a follower with quests and some fun lore references. After playing the game with Inigo and Lucien, it really dawned on me not only how lacking the vanilla followers can be but also how transformative a good follower can be to the game experience.

 

That's why I wanted to get this discussion going, not solely for feedback but mostly to really get the dialogue rolling on what we in the Elder Scrolls community think it takes to make a good follower. What are the most important aspects to you? Are there features that are absolutely required?

 

For me the most important thing is player engagement. The wonderful thing about Inigo, for example, is that he always interacts with you. He has comments wherever you go, you can ask his thoughts on your situation or just what's on his mind, and these things make you feel less like you have an extra sword at your side and more like you have a companion to share the adventure with.

 

Things like unique characterization, good voice acting, clearly written dialogue, a compelling backstory, and an equally compelling reason to travel with the player are also very important factors. However, for my money, no amount of those things will make up for a follower that doesnt consistently engage with you.

 

What about yall? What do you love in a follower mod? What can't you stand?

[tnu]

I look for soemtig reletively u nique myself aimal followers, vampires, dramora, aytig but the enaric cute girl/pretty boy followers A good backstory ad personality helps

Edited December 9, 2018 by tnu

[Lerigonith]

I'm actually surprised that some of those never really occurred to me. I used the Kynreeve follower mod once and I gotta say the game could always use more dremora around. Like having a demon dude being your follower? That's sick as hell

[Zebsi]

There are a few things that separate a good follower from the generic trash you see whenever you look at the "New Today" section.

 

• Depth - This is most important. It's what separates Vilja from a generic waifu, and what makes mods such as Inigo so great. Your follower needs a personality, and it needs to be consistent. However, consistent ≠ unchanging. There's nothing wrong with changing your follower's temperament, but the shift in tone should have a clear explanation, come subtly, and occur over time.

 

• Display - So you've got your follower's characterization figured out, now you have to show it. The most obvious way to do so is through the standard conversation topics, but those are static, and therefore can't properly exhibit your follower's dynamicity. In the mod I'm currently developing, I give every follower the following three outlets to display tone:

1. Locational Dialogue - You're traveling across Skyrim and Solstheim, delving into everything from Nordic tombs to Dwarven ruins. Realistically, your follower would have something to say about the different locations you find yourselves in. Most of this should take the form of idle comments, but additional conversations based on location are always welcome.

 

2. Quest Dialogue - Positive or negative, your follower should have something to say about your various feats. If your follower backstory involves not-so-cordial run ins with the Dark Brotherhood, he'll probably have something to say about you wiping them out. Adversely, if you were to join them, he'd probably have something else to say. Commentary on the Main Questline is a must.

 

3. A "What's on your mind" Topic - Make a topic, with the prompt being "What's on your mind?" and then make the possible responses a bunch of random 1-2 line comments. You'd be surprised how much life this can add to your follower.

 

• Player Dialogue - Remember that your follower isn't the only person in the story. Most players make several different characters, each with different backgrounds and personalities. You should have a number of player responses, each reflecting a different temperament. Because after all, your virtuous paladin isn't going to have the same tone as your lunatic assassin or sly thief.

 

• Progression - As the player speaks to and spends more time with the follower, more dialogue should become available. After all, you're not going to tell someone you barely know your entire life story just like that. It also gives an incentive to keep the follower around, and you won't feel like you're done with the character 90 minutes into the game.

 

• Realism - Now, I know we're talking about a world with Elves and magic, but the mod can and should be realistic relative to the game. A recent mod, I won't give any names in case a moderator sees this and decides to take a power trip, ignored this aspect by making the title character the "Chosen Queen of Tamriel". This blatantly goes against the lore and as a result, turned off a decent number of people who might have otherwise been interested in it.

Of course, lore-friendliness is only half of it. Think of your follower's background, and how it would affect their outlook on the player. For example, a follower whose backstory revolves around their family being executed by the Imperial Legion likely wouldn't be a fan of a player who's part of the Legion. This doesn't mean close them off to the player based on their choice of faction, although that isn't necessarily a bad idea, but it could be used to add another element to the follower's relationship with the player.

• Reason - Why is your follower a follower? Someone mentioned having a dremora companion. Why would a dremora, an immortal being who can be anywhere at any time, choose to follow the player around and be their loyal companion? Your mod should address this question, and provide an answer, either from the start, or somewhere down the road.

• Mechanics - The behind the scenes stuff needs to be up to par too. Your follower needs to have the proper class, perks, and default gear. Because while a follower should be more than an extra sword at your side, they still should be that sword. Since a lot of follower frameworks allow you to change your follower's combat style, I'd give them all of the basic perks for magic, archery, and melee combat. I'd also add a line that immersively lets you determine whether or not your follower is essential, since a lot of people seem to have divided views on that.

I apologize for the wall of text, but yeah. If you maintain all of these aspects, your follower mod will definitely be mentioned in the same breath as Lucien or even Inigo.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Zebsi

[Jeir]

Pretty much everything Zebsi said, but I'd like to add two things:

- Male. There simply aren't enough decent male companions in any of these games. (And none of the ones available fit every checkbox for me.)

- A friendship and romance path. Again, because there aren't enough. Goes along with Zebsi's 'Progression' part. The companion shouldn't adore the player and want to be BFFs from the first moment. No friendship/romance progresses smoothly; there will be fights. It should even be possible to have so many disagreements that they permanently leave the player's side.

 

Possibly the greatest companion mod I've ever played is Companion Julan for Morrowind. I have never encountered a companion that is as well-written and well-made as him, although I understand it's a lot harder to make such an in-depth mod for the newer games, especially as it's text vs voiced dialogue.

[Zebsi]

Honestly, most of the good followers are male. Like I'm not talking about those weird rapey mods, I mean the real followers like Inigo. Like honestly, the only female follower I haven't heard bad things about is Arissa. So I'd 100% be open to an actually well done female, but like it really isn't a big deal. What's between the character's computer-generated legs doesn't make or break a follower lol

Edited December 9, 2018 by Zebsi

[anbeegod]

Speaking about mods that are very popular, it's the gimmick that attracts the players, and the shell that the author displays a follower in. A popular mod may or may not be a good mod, and a good mod may or may not be a popular mod, depending on how well it suits the general players' taste. In short, good mods still need marketing to get recognition.

[Lerigonith]

A lot of very good answers, and Zebsi really thank you for the detailed response! I also definitely think marketing has a lot to do with making a successful mod of any kind, although I'm pretty clueless when it comes to marketing to the Skyrim community. I imagine that the Nexus is a pretty good place to start.

I agree with the sentiment that there are a lot of women follower mods, most of which I have tried and very few that I've liked. Now a lot of personal preference and taste goes into that, but it is far from the first time I've heard similar opinions.

 

Friendship and romance are ones that I could not agree with more! It's one of the things I'm currently building up in my own mod, and I promised myself to add a romance path after being very sad to find out neither Inigo nor Lucien were romanceable... Which of course I understand anyone not wanting to write romance arcs, but I feel like it's something a lot of players want. Building a friendship with the player is just as (if not more) important because you need to give them a reason to keep the follower around.

 

Zebsi also touched on the follower having opinions on certain places and factions, and I have to ask everyone how they feel about a follower not liking certain choices or joining certain guilds? To give a few examples, what if they don't believe in getting involved in the Civil War questline? Should they just voice their opinion and tag along anyway? Should they leave your service until you've completed the questline?

[TeofaTsavo]

I'll not touch on what has been mentioned. I'll talk nuts & bolts.

 

I want a follower independent of both the vanilla follower system and the need to install a follower management mod. Ideally, for me, a companion will have a standalone mount system, simple wardrobe and gear management, a regard, romance and marriage system that is not vanilla. Set home and summon options. A "warp to me" option to deal with them falling too far behind. Storage separate of their own inventory. Options to set combat style and disable spell use. Sandboxing.

 

No shouts on a companion, ever. I do not want to be searching a dungeon for a quest object that "Idiot with Fus Ro Dah" tried to send to the next cell.

 

I would prefer a companion would come with the "lightfoot" perk right out of the tin simply because it is the lowest impact method to cure their pathing stupidity re traps.

 

When the dialog gets stale, as all do, the utility built into a companion is still a huge consideration for me and determines which companion becomes a constant.

 

A companion that either uses my existing bodymesh and textures or has loose folders for their mesh and textures. A simple shoulder length hair to minimize clipping.

 

Things I do not care about, personally. An involved life history backstory...Concise is good, with no orphans, royalty, revenge, faction declarations, etc. I do not care for long, involved initial quests, shorter quests that occur with leveling and favor are preferable.

 

Re Morality.. It can be ok, or it can really limit a player's choices. As example, for me, I would have no issues with a Companion that would leave my service if I became a cannibal, a werewolf, a vampire, a stormcloak, a Thieves Guild member, Dark Brotherhood member, or killed a child. If I made a follower, it would have all those morality issues... and tbh would not be very popular :smile:. I enjoyed Arissa's favor system but had to modify my gameplay vs Stormcloak camps and let them start the fight, if I stealthed and cut throats the "murder" favor hit was pretty bad, for example.

Edited January 5, 2019 by TeofaTsavo