The Debate Forum. Closed, or Unmoderated.

[Nintii]

I disagree with the last part.

 

If someone cannot control themselves to the extent that they'll swear at people or genuinely discriminate against them on the grounds you mention, because they were "provoked" or someone was "punching their buttons" then a- they shouldn't really be in a debates forum in the first place, and b- I don't see why they can be trusted to maintain an even temper in any other section. People get their "buttons pressed" about things as non-consequential as game lore and the exact moral implications of patching other people's mods.

 

There should be a more tolerant approach within the debate forums on what subjects can be discussed, and how much out and out disagreement and even flat out argument is allowed (because disagreement is the point of the debate forums), but abuse and bigotry should be zero-tolerance in any forum section, regardless of any perceived provocation. If such provocation is abusive in itself, then let the staff sort it out, don't respond, or at least don't respond while you're still angry enough to hurl abuse back.

 

I only wish that I did not edit my post before posting it, as you would have seen that I completely agree with you in this regard ... there is nothing I hate more

than someone spouting filth from their mouth by swearing.

The calling people names and discriminating against them due to their race, colour or creed etc, is also a load of nonsense and should NOT be tolerated.

However, if someone does "push your buttons" (and it happens to everyone here), from the greatest to the smallest ... then I need to have the right to defend myself.

If I get annoyed due to someone disagreeing with me as per a point in a topic ... fair and well ... then that's my problem.

Maybe I never thought through what I said or perhaps never even thought at all or maybe my "facts were in fact fiction", the list goes on ... but that's my problem and

I need to get over it and get my facts straight.

 

Even a personal barb can be overlooked from time to time ... it's just maturity ... but there are times that people go out of their way to be just plain nasty.

They have clearly left the realm of decency ... it's got nothing to do with the topic at hand anymore ... and it's just plain nastiness ... it's happened to me

and virtually everyone else here.

Here is the crucible, here is the flame ... do you smack the twit or smile and let it go cos they're simply not worth your time ?

Here is where today (whenever that may be) it might simply not have been your day and you lose your cool ... so now you get banned because you lost it.

Hurling back abuse is also not what I mean ... hurling back creative abuse is better.

 

Nevermind the "flat out arguement" that virtually never happens, not even a decent one for a fair amount of time.

Sometimes the Debates Forum is like having a boxing match but telling the boxers not to hurt each other ... even within the rules ... that makes no sense.

 

So because this topic is about whether or not the Debates section should still exist or be Moderated ... I say leave it as it is ... but change the rules slightly

because of the nature of the beast.

 

A Debates Ban just like the Chat Ban should work here ... you're naughty then you get a Two Month Ban as opposed to the two week chat ban enforced in

Chat.

But hey, that might mean the Moderators would have more work on their hands ... no not neccessarily so ... if you get that ban here then when the

two months are up then it's up to "you" to approach the Moderators and tell them so.

 

ALL the current rules should remain ... the rot should still be removed.

[HeyYou]

I disagree with the last part.

 

If someone cannot control themselves to the extent that they'll swear at people or genuinely discriminate against them on the grounds you mention, because they were "provoked" or someone was "punching their buttons" then a- they shouldn't really be in a debates forum in the first place, and b- I don't see why they can be trusted to maintain an even temper in any other section. People get their "buttons pressed" about things as non-consequential as game lore and the exact moral implications of patching other people's mods.

 

There should be a more tolerant approach within the debate forums on what subjects can be discussed, and how much out and out disagreement and even flat out argument is allowed (because disagreement is the point of the debate forums), but abuse and bigotry should be zero-tolerance in any forum section, regardless of any perceived provocation. If such provocation is abusive in itself, then let the staff sort it out, don't respond, or at least don't respond while you're still angry enough to hurl abuse back.

 

I only wish that I did not edit my post before posting it, as you would have seen that I completely agree with you in this regard ... there is nothing I hate more

than someone spouting filth from their mouth by swearing.

The calling people names and discriminating against them due to their race, colour or creed etc, is also a load of nonsense and should NOT be tolerated.

However, if someone does "push your buttons" (and it happens to everyone here), from the greatest to the smallest ... then I need to have the right to defend myself.

If I get annoyed due to someone disagreeing with me as per a point in a topic ... fair and well ... then that's my problem.

Maybe I never thought through what I said or perhaps never even thought at all or maybe my "facts were in fact fiction", the list goes on ... but that's my problem and

I need to get over it and get my facts straight.

 

Even a personal barb can be overlooked from time to time ... it's just maturity ... but there are times that people go out of their way to be just plain nasty.

They have clearly left the realm of decency ... it's got nothing to do with the topic at hand anymore ... and it's just plain nastiness ... it's happened to me

and virtually everyone else here.

Here is the crucible, here is the flame ... do you smack the twit or smile and let it go cos they're simply not worth your time ?

Here is where today (whenever that may be) it might simply not have been your day and you lose your cool ... so now you get banned because you lost it.

Hurling back abuse is also not what I mean ... hurling back creative abuse is better.

 

Nevermind the "flat out arguement" that virtually never happens, not even a decent one for a fair amount of time.

Sometimes the Debates Forum is like having a boxing match but telling the boxers not to hurt each other ... even within the rules ... that makes no sense.

 

So because this topic is about whether or not the Debates section should still exist or be Moderated ... I say leave it as it is ... but change the rules slightly

because of the nature of the beast.

 

A Debates Ban just like the Chat Ban should work here ... you're naughty then you get a Two Month Ban as opposed to the two week chat ban enforced in

Chat.

But hey, that might mean the Moderators would have more work on their hands ... no not neccessarily so ... if you get that ban here then when the

two months are up then it's up to "you" to approach the Moderators and tell them so.

 

ALL the current rules should remain ... the rot should still be removed.

 

 

Posts of that nature (bolded part) Should be Reported. Not responded to. If you are short-tempered, or, just having a bad day, and have any doubts whatsoever about keeping your baser instincts under control, simply don't come to the debates forum.... Folks are responsible for their own actions. That applies here as well. The rules are the rules, and do not allow for exceptions because someone had a bad hair day. If such things were permitted to be used as an excuse of unacceptable behavior, anyone that got a warning/ban, would be claiming "it was just a bad day", and there would be no point in enforcing the rules. It doesn't work like that in the outside world, it shouldn't be like that here. If you step over the line, regardless of reasoning, you should fully EXPECT to pay the penalty for it.

[imperistan]

Personally, I'd just rather see a heavier hand on people who sit and try to debate the nature of the argument rather than actually debating the issue at hand. People who try to debate on the fringe of the issues rather than in the thick of it.

 

Posts like this: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/675749-why-ulfric-was-right-to-kill-the-high-king/page__view__findpost__p__5391445

 

Are debating the actual issue at hand.

 

Posts like this: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/675749-why-ulfric-was-right-to-kill-the-high-king/page__st__560__p__5778120#entry5778120

 

Are trying to debate the nature of the argument.

 

I really wish posts of the second kind were moderated more.

[Ihoe]

Seems that there is quite a bit of behind the scenes discussion going on about whether the debate forum stays open or not. Here is an opportunity for folks to discuss it in the open.

 

Sure, there are some issues here, name calling and such, but, the debates forum is certainly not for the thin-skinned in any event. Some self-moderation could go a long way here.... but given the diverse age range, and backgrounds we are dealing with here, expecting everyone to act like an "adult", when a fair few of them are NOT adults..... makes we wonder if we aren't expecting a bit much.

 

So, for my part, I would suggest just leaving it unmoderated. Sure, it's going to annoy some folks... but, that's the nature of the beast. We DON'T all agree on everything. We don't all act like adults. (not even some of the adults...) The mods here are concerned that this section is becoming difficult to moderate. So, just don't. The folks that can't debate rationally, will piss and moan about it, but, that's all that will happen.

 

Thoughts?

 

Well, from what I remember, it didn't use to be like this. 2 years ago, the topics were preposterous, but the members who participated in the said topics were quite rational and valuable. the forums were auspicious to have such a useful section for interchanging thoughts and improving the linguistic ability of non-English users to say their say and be happy of communicating with -rational- foreign avatars.

 

I wonder how these forums which were less moderated but much more active back then, are considered incorrigible. it seems hard for the new avatars to accept remonstrations against their posts, which are not conversant anyhow.

 

I think the trouble starts with people not valuing others' posts. the posts are never thoroughly read and the answers never fully evaluated. vernacular is common use and the sweetness of using complex words has stopped altogether. I remember having to use the dictionary every now and then when visiting this section and reading it's posts. now, I think, people don't even want to read, they just want to express their opinion and be very intractable about it.

 

the members may be pugnacious or contentious, but tending to generalize without viewing oneself is wrong. one would consider self right in every argument. just as you would OP, and many other people. older members could argue that your view of someone acting as an adult is wrong, and they could be wrong. but that's just the nature of debates. if the viewers of this forums would just, ruminate the above -below or anywhere in between- member's posts, problem would be solved. but it's not right to ask for such a thing when the nature of some new topics in this section is provocative and personal.

 

moderation of debates is simply not fair. thoughts are based on personal opinions. one can not say "you're wrong for not thinking like us so you're -banned-". that's just not fair. on the other hand, you cannot rate how provocative a simple post is. a simple "yeah" could mean "f--- you" based on the circumstances, and the fact that posts are not vocal makes the moderation of such posts nigh impossible.

 

so my say? let's not touch a thing. we may end up feeling that it was good enough when it's too late.

[Lisnpuppy]

I have never personally..nor have I seen in the 4 1/2 years I have been here, a person banned in this section for a unpopular opinion. I can not say if a banned person thought that they were, but banned folks think may incorrect things. I have many times played devil's advocate to an unpopular opinion. People are banned when they post things that are in offense to the rules of the forums and ToS of this family of sites.

 

Now I must say that I have seen and handled many reports made by others in this forum that I chalked down to the person being unreasonable about an unpopular opinion....and decided to take it too personal when it is not. All sides are considered and as with any report the entire staff can and often does chip in an opinion....or whomever handles a report may ask for others opinions on a particularly sticky subject.

 

So fear not...with whatever level of moderation this section will have....the side on which a poster's argument falls is not a reason for repercussion by the moderation team.

[HeyYou]

I have never personally..nor have I seen in the 4 1/2 years I have been here, a person banned in this section for a unpopular opinion. I can not say if a banned person thought that they were, but banned folks think may incorrect things. I have many times played devil's advocate to an unpopular opinion. People are banned when they post things that are in offense to the rules of the forums and ToS of this family of sites.

 

Now I must say that I have seen and handled many reports made by others in this forum that I chalked down to the person being unreasonable about an unpopular opinion....and decided to take it too personal when it is not. All sides are considered and as with any report the entire staff can and often does chip in an opinion....or whomever handles a report may ask for others opinions on a particularly sticky subject.

 

So fear not...with whatever level of moderation this section will have....the side on which a poster's argument falls is not a reason for repercussion by the moderation team.

 

You guys leave that to the Illuminati that actually run the site, right?

[Lisnpuppy]

I have never personally..nor have I seen in the 4 1/2 years I have been here, a person banned in this section for a unpopular opinion. I can not say if a banned person thought that they were, but banned folks think may incorrect things. I have many times played devil's advocate to an unpopular opinion. People are banned when they post things that are in offense to the rules of the forums and ToS of this family of sites.

 

Now I must say that I have seen and handled many reports made by others in this forum that I chalked down to the person being unreasonable about an unpopular opinion....and decided to take it too personal when it is not. All sides are considered and as with any report the entire staff can and often does chip in an opinion....or whomever handles a report may ask for others opinions on a particularly sticky subject.

 

So fear not...with whatever level of moderation this section will have....the side on which a poster's argument falls is not a reason for repercussion by the moderation team.

 

You guys leave that to the Illuminati that actually run the site, right?

 

If you honestly believe (though I understand that you are joking to an extent) that any of us would do that...that ANY of us would ban someone because we disagreed with their opinion...then I would ask do you really feel comfy here? I say this as a member of this community..not as a moderator (see no yellow.) I believe this 110% and if I thought that this happened I would not be a member of this community, much less a moderator.

 

I am the moderator whom has taken on this section (mostly) the most recently....though I am not sure I have banned someone from here or just given strikes...really I don't remember....regardless....it is rather funny since I am mostly the odd man out here. I think this section should be moderated at exactly the same standards as every other part of this forum. In other words I don't believe personally in a lightly moderated debates section. The rules are indeed the rules and should apply to all sections...in my opinion. However I have never, ever at any time even considered banning or anything else based on my opinion of someones argument. Ever. How the argument is presented...if it violates the ToS or rules...then I am more than happy to take action. Many know I do not agree with their philosophies....and yet they are still here. So do you really think that any of us would act in such a way...because if you do..wow. How can you trust anything we do? I am not asking that to start something...but rather I am pretty concerned that perhaps you believe this way.

[Ihoe]

I have never personally..nor have I seen in the 4 1/2 years I have been here, a person banned in this section for a unpopular opinion. I can not say if a banned person thought that they were, but banned folks think may incorrect things. I have many times played devil's advocate to an unpopular opinion. People are banned when they post things that are in offense to the rules of the forums and ToS of this family of sites.

 

Now I must say that I have seen and handled many reports made by others in this forum that I chalked down to the person being unreasonable about an unpopular opinion....and decided to take it too personal when it is not. All sides are considered and as with any report the entire staff can and often does chip in an opinion....or whomever handles a report may ask for others opinions on a particularly sticky subject.

 

So fear not...with whatever level of moderation this section will have....the side on which a poster's argument falls is not a reason for repercussion by the moderation team.

 

I can say that I have in the same period. Not directly, but by badly describing one's opinions. If I rampantly type that i'm a nazi white supremacist and every one else should be made into soaps, I am provoking the ban hammer, but if I reply with a face palm smiley to every post disagreeing with me, I provoke others with my mischief and possibly invoke the ban hammer on them. See, a members actions may be as stupid as typing a smiley, but the chain of events that follow will lead to flame storms. It's just the unfortunate person who catches the eye of moderators with their comments, And it all flows from their opinions.

 

I think slight vigilantisism should be allowed, like simply saying "sir, you have made a provocative post." this can stop or maybe start a flame war, but that's just a theory, 20-30 year olds calling others immature is just, immature, in my opinion.

[HeyYou]

I have never personally..nor have I seen in the 4 1/2 years I have been here, a person banned in this section for a unpopular opinion. I can not say if a banned person thought that they were, but banned folks think may incorrect things. I have many times played devil's advocate to an unpopular opinion. People are banned when they post things that are in offense to the rules of the forums and ToS of this family of sites.

 

Now I must say that I have seen and handled many reports made by others in this forum that I chalked down to the person being unreasonable about an unpopular opinion....and decided to take it too personal when it is not. All sides are considered and as with any report the entire staff can and often does chip in an opinion....or whomever handles a report may ask for others opinions on a particularly sticky subject.

 

So fear not...with whatever level of moderation this section will have....the side on which a poster's argument falls is not a reason for repercussion by the moderation team.

 

You guys leave that to the Illuminati that actually run the site, right?

 

If you honestly believe (though I understand that you are joking to an extent) that any of us would do that...that ANY of us would ban someone because we disagreed with their opinion...then I would ask do you really feel comfy here? I say this as a member of this community..not as a moderator (see no yellow.) I believe this 110% and if I thought that this happened I would not be a member of this community, much less a moderator.

 

I am the moderator whom has taken on this section (mostly) the most recently....though I am not sure I have banned someone from here or just given strikes...really I don't remember....regardless....it is rather funny since I am mostly the odd man out here. I think this section should be moderated at exactly the same standards as every other part of this forum. In other words I don't believe personally in a lightly moderated debates section. The rules are indeed the rules and should apply to all sections...in my opinion. However I have never, ever at any time even considered banning or anything else based on my opinion of someones argument. Ever. How the argument is presented...if it violates the ToS or rules...then I am more than happy to take action. Many know I do not agree with their philosophies....and yet they are still here. So do you really think that any of us would act in such a way...because if you do..wow. How can you trust anything we do? I am not asking that to start something...but rather I am pretty concerned that perhaps you believe this way.

 

No, I don't honestly believe that. I am not quite that much of a conspiracy theorist. :D Just making an attempt at humor. (and failing?)

[Syco21]

I don't think this section should be moderated the same as other sections. A different form of discussion takes place here than in other sections, and that should be considered.