fraquar Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 (edited) It's not until you understand the Empire negotiated away something they had no moral authority to negotiate away that you really understand why the Stormcloaks are fighting. I have already gone into a very long explination of ethics, government responsibility, and varriable freedoms elsewhere on this board, and frankly i'd rather not re-type that essay. Sufficed to day, the Empire, as a government, has a moral Obligation to protect its peoples lives first and formost. This means that they also have the moral right to impose sanctions and restrictions in the persuit of that obligation. Any Empire that allows the ENEMY to impose those sanctions is an Empire that is on a collision course for extinction. They have already lost Hammerfell, and they are probably going to lose Skyrim too - after all it is the Empire that has invited the Thalmor onto Skyrim territory. The Empire has already shown they have no backbone with the Thalmor, otherwise they would have policed the problem themselves without Thalmor intervention. The Thalmor being in Skyrim is akin to the Germans being in Russia after they signed a non-agression treaty. Gathering all the intelligence they want to prepare for the coming onslaught. And while they are at it undermine the population and the government from the inside out to soften them up. Edited September 24, 2012 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliera Caine Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 It seems to me that the Empire's treaty with the Thalmor is inadequately explained. There has been ample reference to the Empire having the upper hand at the end of the war. So what happened in those negotiations that supplied the Thalmor with a superior position? -- A position which seems to hold fast and grow stronger, no matter the passing of time. Something was going on at that time (end of war) that was important enough to be recognized by both sides and allowed the Thalmor to dictate a change to accepted religion in the Empire. It does not appear that we have been supplied with the "full story." I really would love to see a DLC or a new game that would deal with leading a campaign against the Aldmeri Dominion. There is still a lot of truth to uncover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 It seems to me that the Empire's treaty with the Thalmor is inadequately explained. There has been ample reference to the Empire having the upper hand at the end of the war. So what happened in those negotiations that supplied the Thalmor with a superior position? -- A position which seems to hold fast and grow stronger, no matter the passing of time. Something was going on at that time (end of war) that was important enough to be recognized by both sides and allowed the Thalmor to dictate a change to accepted religion in the Empire. It does not appear that we have been supplied with the "full story." I really would love to see a DLC or a new game that would deal with leading a campaign against the Aldmeri Dominion. There is still a lot of truth to uncover.Your right about that something was not adequately explained, but you are wrong at what wasn't explained properly. The Empire did not have a upper hand at the end of the war, Cyrodill, most of its cities, and most of its lands, were destroyed, the best legions only had 50% of their men left, and while the AD probably only had just as many men left, they had one clear advantage, resources. Had The Empire continued the war against the AD it would have just turned into a stalemated war, with the AD being vastly more able to supply its men then The Empire could, and forcing the Empire to have t divert more if its already small number of men into trying to rebuild a nation, as it is being constantly attacked by the AD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliera Caine Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 When I spoke of the Empire having the upper hand, I was referring to the Battle of the Red Ring. However, as you pointed out, merely one battle would not have ensured an eventual victory for the Empire since their resources were tapped far more heavily than the AD. And yet, there needs to be more information on what actually happened during the making of the treaty. Since the Elves were the suggested aggressors in this war, and their army had just been destroyed by Titus II, morale of successfully repulsing an invader and the moral high ground should have weighed in favor of the Empire to some extent. The true superiority shown by the AD was their ability to invade the Empire without actually have to extend the war they had begun. Under the guise of "oversight" they sent their ambassadors to police the religion of the Empire. It was a huge failure of Titus and his advisers that they accepted the banning of Talos, as if they had no idea what the weakening repercussions might be in Cyrodiil and in the rest of the Empire. Tiber Septim was a symbol of the Empire. Throw out this hero-king-god, and you have practically burned your own flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RighthandofSithis Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 When I spoke of the Empire having the upper hand, I was referring to the Battle of the Red Ring. However, as you pointed out, merely one battle would not have ensured an eventual victory for the Empire since their resources were tapped far more heavily than the AD. And yet, there needs to be more information on what actually happened during the making of the treaty. Since the Elves were the suggested aggressors in this war, and their army had just been destroyed by Titus II, morale of successfully repulsing an invader and the moral high ground should have weighed in favor of the Empire to some extent. The true superiority shown by the AD was their ability to invade the Empire without actually have to extend the war they had begun. Under the guise of "oversight" they sent their ambassadors to police the religion of the Empire. It was a huge failure of Titus and his advisers that they accepted the banning of Talos, as if they had no idea what the weakening repercussions might be in Cyrodiil and in the rest of the Empire. Tiber Septim was a symbol of the Empire. Throw out this hero-king-god, and you have practically burned your own flag. Titus did make a huge mistake. If the Thalmor were willing to sign a peace treaty, it is strongly suggested that they could not continue the war. While Titus may not have been in a position to continue the war himself, he could have easily pushed for more balanced or even Imperial favored terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I have to say, this sounds more like a surrender than a treaty - all the Empire got in exchange for peace was "whew, we get to stand down", while the Thalmor were checking off items on their "you will do" list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 I highly doubt the Thalmor would have accepted anything that doesn't favor them greatly, expecting them to accept a fair and equal treaty is like expecting Hitler to accept one also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RighthandofSithis Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 (edited) I highly doubt the Thalmor would have accepted anything that doesn't favor them greatly, expecting them to accept a fair and equal treaty is like expecting Hitler to accept one also. Bringing us to the concept of 'No peace, no war'. Worked well for the Bolsheviks in their relationship with Germany. Edited September 25, 2012 by RighthandofSithis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts