You need to uninstall Sounds of Skyrim

[El`derina]

I removed it before this news,.. had been able to single it out as the cause of every 5-10 minute crashing >.>

no issues at all since removal(or not even,.. just unchecked, unloaded)

 

I am sure simply having the files left there, untouched is fine so long as the mod isnt loaded, correct?

[Deleted4958003User]

I don't want a new update from cliffworms. I don't even care if he continues with the mod, as lot's of other things in life come first.

 

I do however want a way to either uninstall the mod or a fix for the current version. We aren't talking about just using the mod here. The way I see it, one of two things are going to happen if nothing is done.

 

1. People uninstall the mod, causing save game bloat.

2. People keep the mod because they don't want save game bloat, and eventually the game progresses until the mod is so outdated it causes Skyrim to no longer work. I'm sure Bethesda will change some of the involved files eventually.

 

So, your out of luck either way.

[jaime74]

2. People keep the mod because they don't want save game bloat, and eventually the game progresses until the mod is so outdated it causes Skyrim to no longer work. I'm sure Bethesda will change some of the involved files eventually.

Probably true. But, thinking optimistically, that might be the moment when most of the people affected will have started new characters anyway, so that issue might have sorted itself out in a "natural way" by then. Well, if anyone should be so stupid to start a new game with the SoS mods enabled, it's their own fault of course! ;)

 

I myself have done the other thing, unfortunately, which now turns out to be the wrong choice: I quickly uninstalled all my three SoS mods once I had heard of the issues, though I hadn't had any problems until then. Before I learned then that this is not the recommended way, I had proceeded too far in my game to turn back. Things seemed to work fine for weeks after that. But now, even after WEEKS of playing without any problems, the savegame bloat suddenly got me as well. Really frustrating... :(

[Demonik420]

this sucks.. cant have the mods they cause ctd's ... cant delete the mods it causes save game bloat.. what the hell, wish these mods didnt have scripts embedded into saves that we cant delete.. its a real pain in the ass

[Jonxx]

I wonder when he will release patch for his damn mod... I dont have my save file bloated anymore but now it's crashing sometimes ;/

I hope he didnt throw this mod just cuz something like that in the way.

[Hendies]

Surely it shouldn't take this long for the mod author to release a patched-up version of the mod.

 

Any mod is a gift. Cliffworms owes us nothing, rather, we owe Cliffworms a great deal of gratitude for making a mod which is such an improvement and also has no replacement, at least not at the moment. I sincerely hope the author will either take back up the reins or pass the torch (to mix metaphors shamefully) but ultimately that is the author's decision.

 

Very true, but he does owe it to the people who have downloaded his mod and have had save bloating issues because of it

[Staind716]

Surely it shouldn't take this long for the mod author to release a patched-up version of the mod.

 

Any mod is a gift. Cliffworms owes us nothing, rather, we owe Cliffworms a great deal of gratitude for making a mod which is such an improvement and also has no replacement, at least not at the moment. I sincerely hope the author will either take back up the reins or pass the torch (to mix metaphors shamefully) but ultimately that is the author's decision.

While I agree that it is ultimately Cliffworms decision how to go about rectifying this situation, I have to disagree about the part where you say he owes us nothing. I have no hard feelings whatsoever about the current fiaso because as we know that was purely unintentional and an honest mistake on his part. However, I feel that if you release a mod then you also take on the responsibility of helping all the people who are kind enough to use your work. Fortunately, all our mods are ENB's so there is nothing gamebreaking that can come from using them but we feel a sense of responsibility to support the people who show us support by downloading our mods to begin with. Maybe it's just me, but it simply boils down to doing the right thing. I haven't really kept up on this issue like I used to but from what I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) Cliffworms hasn't made an announcement of any kind about whether he is still attempting to fix this or even that he isn't going to keep working on it. Even if the final answer is "Sorry guys, I can't fix this issue and don't feel like dealing with it anymore", I believe he does owe everyone at least that much courtesy rather than leaving us totally in the dark.

 

Not trying to be argumentative here. I see you in the forums quite a bit helping people everywhere you can and I have a lot of respect for that. Just giving my opinion on this particular topic. :)

[Georgiegril]

@Staind716: I appreciate that you want some followup from the mod author, and are frustrated from the lack of it. I agree with you, too, that from a moral standpoint, it would be more moral for the creator of a mod to provide support and follow though, that there is a moral responsibility, once you put your creation into the world, to try as far as possible to ensure that it does not cause harm.

 

From a practical standpoint, however, I think that a user of a mod is taking a calculated risk. They are choosing to pick up something that is free with the hope that it will improve their game, and deciding that the potential improvement to their game is more likely than the potential harm. Having made that decision, the consequences to their game for better or worse are ultimately the result of their decision to use a mod or to pass on it. It's like if there was a couch on the side of the road with a free sign on it. Maybe you take a look at it and decide it is exactly the thing for your living room. And maybe it is. Or maybe you discover a couple days later that it makes your house smell funny or has fleas. If you had bought a couch fro the store, you would have paid for, in part, a certain level of quality. But this is a free couch--you really can't expect anything, Although you might hope someone wouldn't maliciously put an infested couch out, what happens to your living room can only be traced to what you decided to do. Maybe you take it, maybe you pass. Maybe you get lucky, maybe you don't. Only you can decide of the risk is worth it.

 

Another complication with mods is that there is no real infrastructure to support a mod in the case that the author has some sort of sudden crisis in their life. While it may be that in this case the author just got overwhelmed or tired of dealing with it, none of us really know. If s/he were seriously ill or injured, or had some other tragedy befall them, there is no real way for us as a community to step in and take over. I really hope that this is not the case. However, I'm sure you would agree that if we were to find out that Cliffworms was in the hospital, or homeless, or something like that, we would certainly not expect them to be worrying about a mod, even to do what it takes to hand it over to someone else. I wish them the best, and I sincerely hope we hear from him or her again.

 

Thanks for the kind words, I also think of you quite highly. I think it is quite possible for two intelligent, reasonable people to have different ways of seeing things and absolutely respect your opinion as well!

[Staind716]

@Georgiegril: Actually, I was fortunate enough to hear about this issue in time to restart with an older save so I managed to dodge the bullet with the uninstallation save bloat. I just feel for the people having this problem and know how frustrating it is. I fought with it for a couple of days before going with the lesser of the two evils and losing some game progress.

 

You do raise some great points and it seems we have a very similiar philosophy about mods.

 

I do agree about the calculated risk with using mods in general (miscalculated a few times myself ;) ) and as we all know that risk is all a part of the modding game. I don't think this would have blown up like it has if Cliffworms didn't already have some extremely popular mods with no real issues to speak of when Civilizations blindsided everyone with this catch-22 situation. I know I was almost a casualty because I broke my rule of letting the mod mature and others be the guinea pigs for a while before trying it myself. The popularity and stability of Wilds and Dungeons lulled me into a false sense of security especially since I had used them so long with no trouble. I learned a valuable lesson from that. Like I said before, I don't blame Cliffworms in the least for this as I'm sure it was completely unintentional and a shocker to him as well. It's just unfortunate so many people were affected very likely because they made that same blind leap of faith that I did based on past experience with his other mods. (I seem to remember hearing Cliffworms is a guy so I am using the male pronoun here. If I'm wrong somebody please smack me. I know some of my female modder friends would love to hold this one over my head :P ). So yes, I totally agree about the practical view of "user beware" that is basically a necessity because of the vast number of mods available and possible conflicts. Thankfully, "bad" modders who upload files that are harmful are found out very quickly around here and informed of their mistake immediately. I don't mean anything derogatory by using the term "bad" in that sentence. Perhaps "inexperienced" would be better. I have massive respect for anyone who can create anything with the CK since I took one look at it the day Beth released it and slowly backed away sniffling to myself and feeling far from intelligent. With Cliffworms being an established mod author though I think that did have some affect on people's trust level. It did for me at least. (By the way, love the couch analogy. ;) )

 

You know, it's funny I didn't think of the lack of infrastructure and actually feel pretty selfish about that. Especially since I am fortunate enough to not only have one of my best friends here or anywhere else as a partner but also friends who stepped in to help while I was sick and taking care of some things with my kids. That has to be a ton of pressure on just one person and I have to respect those working on their own without that safety net. I do hope that Cliffworms doesn't have any real life issues that are affecting this situation. Not because of the mod, but because I wish the best for everyone. Well, except maybe the occasional troll. :P So let's hope that isn't it.

 

My earlier post was based on my personal sense of morality and responsibility. I do agree with your points about the practical aspects of using mods. I should have mentioned that as well instead of just focusing on the philosophical side in my previous comments. I'm actually very happy to have had this conversation with you since you did make me see solo modders in a slightly different light. Not that I didn't already have the utmost respect for them but now even more so. And from the looks of it we actually do agree once we went a little more in depth with our views. Morally, yes there is a responsibility. Practically, beware and take your chances. And of course we are all human with lives outside of modding so anything is possible in that respect.

 

Lol, I think we may have slightly derailed the main intent of this thread but hopefully we will be forgiven. :)

 

I will keep my eye out on the Beth forums as well and if I come across anything that may be helpful I will most definitely let everyone know. Good luck with your games and I truly hope all of you can find a solution other than a total reinstall and restart.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Staind716

[jaime74]

I love to follow this discussion, and I'd like to throw in a third point of view, which shouldn't be argumentative either, but rather complementary:

Wouldn't it make sense to try and learn from this issue instead of blaming or defending the modder? As a modder myself, I am asking myself what went wrong with SoS - Civilization, and how I can avoid to make the same mistake.

I understand only vaguely from all I've read so far that apparently we need to take extreme care with papyrus scripting in TESV, but I haven't understood what makes the difference between "safe" scripting and fatal errors like the one that seems to have happened here (and I suppose we should be thankful that even someone like Cliffworms was so unlucky to run into it so early in the process so that others could become aware of it).

Are there any summaries or wiki articles about this exact issue?

 

Nevertheless, I appreciate this discussion, and I tend to second both positions brought up by Georgiegril and Staind716: There is no real obligation for any modder of course to solve each and every problem that arises from his work, and it is always correct to point out that every mod user is taking a certain risk when using mods. On the other hand, most modders want to get endorsements, and they want to earn a good reputation, especially when they're planning to publish more than one well-known mods, like Cliffworms has done. In my opinion, the talk shouldn't focus so much on whether a modder must do anything for the people (because actually he must not do anything), but I rather believe that a modder should have a natural interest in supporting his mod, far apart from any obligation. But as it has been mentioned clearly in the discussion: No one knows the reasons for Cliffworm's absence, and as long as we don't know nothing, any speculation is fruitless. I rather take this discussion as a proof that people still believe in Cliffworm and his mods, because they're great work, and so they just don't want to abandon it ;). This is a consequence of the brilliant work he has already delivered since Oblivion (or maybe even in Morrowind?).