Who Unfroze the Player, and How Did Kellogg Get Inside Vault 111?

[Haravikk]

So these questions have been bugging me a little bit, as to my knowledge the game never actually confirms either.

 

 

Regarding how Kellogg gets into Vault 111, for those who haven't looked closely at how the vault is setup, the external elevator is actually unpowered so long as the vault door is closed, as the final step of the vault door being reopened is that a pair of umbilical cables is connected to the elevator. This means that once the door was shut, the elevator was taken entirely offline. Since the vault door can only be opened from the inside, this means that there is no way to access the vault from outside.

 

Now, when I first exited the vault, I stumbled upon a little observation post overlooking the top of the elevator, which I didn't realise at the time but it had all the hallmarks of Kellogg (Gwinnett Stout and cigars), meaning he must have observed the vault exit for some reason, but was this prior to him breaking in?

 

 

My working theory is that maybe the Institute relay was capable of sending people directly inside the vault, bypassing the door entirely, but nothing at all establishes this; the exit to the Institute itself is a huge piece of tech, implying it's not simple to just relay someone in and out of an underground bunker, and it's supposed to work using radio signals which surely wouldn't penetrate the vault walls? The vault itself must have a radio receiver (to receive the all-clear signal from Vault-Tec) but that wouldn't be any use for relaying surely (not unless you wanted to relay into a terminal).

 

 

Now, regarding who unfroze the player, my assumption would be Father/the Institute, because otherwise the player would have been frozen forever since there's no sign that the system just randomly spat them out. But Father never mentions this; only mentions I could find are of the Institute being aware you are free and looking for Shaun, and the suggestion is that they just expected you'd eventually find a way. The only event that Father suggests was planned was the player catching up to Kellogg.

 

If Father did order the player unfrozen, then this might explain why there was an observation post for Kellogg, who presumably was ordered to watch for the player leaving, but it seems really weird for Father to not just say "Hey mom/dad, I unfroze you btw, also you owe me 60 years of allowance".

 

 

So yeah, these are things that have been bugging me a bit, and while I have theories about them, I'm curious; does the game ever actually specify either of these things somewhere that I've just missed or overlooked?

[MarkusTay]

Father tells you himself he "had you released", but it never explains how (the details). He said he did it "as an experiment", and "didn't expect you to live". This is during the conversation on the rooftop.

 

As for the other thing - that observation booth you just mentioned has a BIG, SHINY BUTTON in it...

 

That is how you get back in later if you go back for the Cryolator.

[Undeadbob666]

Its my personal theory that the main player is actually a Gen 4 synth created by father to enact his vengeance on the wasteland. The whole beginning part are really just implanted memories, both of Shauns parents are in fact dead (killed by Kellog) and he created you to bring down the institute (thus making the conversation on the rooftop make more sense). Why else can the main player just own a courser, something that everyone in the commonwealth fears yet you can take one down in mere minutes (despite the fact it just took out a whole platoon of gunners).

 

However allot of that theory is really just a way to patch up the loads upon loads of plot holes and stupidities of the main story.

[Haravikk]

As for the other thing - that observation booth you just mentioned has a BIG, SHINY BUTTON in it...

 

 

You mean the elevator control? That isn't a mechanism for opening the vault door, it just triggers the elevator, which wouldn't be receiving any power if the vault door were closed. You can use this button after leaving the vault because you've opened (and left open) the vault door itself, thus connecting the elevator to the vault's power grid. I expect in reality the button would just be a signal to vault security, who could then decide whether to let the elevator descend or not (as Vault 81 do when you try to enter that vault from outside), but with no-one there to say no it just goes ahead and does it. But if the vault door were closed the elevator wouldn't be able to operate at all.

 

Also, what I'm referring to as an observation post is something different; it's a tiny little camp (not even really that) up on a hill overlooking Vault 111's elevator pad (slightly to the north east I think), it's just a chair, a table, some ammo boxes and Kellogg's favourite cigars and beer.

 

 

But thanks for the reminder about the rooftop conversation with Father; guess I either missed those dialogue choices or wasn't paying close enough attention (probably too busy weighing up whether smashing his head off with a power armour assisted super sledge counts as bad parenting or not).

[MarkusTay]

@Undeadbob666 -

We are very much on the same page, here. I believe the whole story is really Father's plot, and others are involved - other 'Institute renegades', like Virgil, Madison Li, an probably even Doctor Amari (she has some pretty damn high-tech for an untrained wastelander living in the 'ghetto' of the Commonwealth). In fact, Many of the 'known synths' are probably also working with a Father, keeping tabs on you (like Sturges.... you know... the guy who can't hack a novice terminal but can build a molecular relay from plans drawn in crayon, and Magnolia).

 

Besides making a big deal about how 'unkillable' Coursers are, they also make a big deal about impregnable the Institute is - nothing gets in or out without the relay. Yet, Virgil does so, and so does Madison Lee, quite easily. I think father's little clandestine group knows all abut the back door and come and go whenever they want, with the rest of the Institute completely unawares. Otherwise, how the hell are ANY synths escaping?

 

Come to think of it, Danse's whole group (the three that are left) are probably synths (we know one is) and were planted there at the Police Sta. after the real ones were wiped-out by the Institute (because WHY would the big, bad institute let a tiny little group who might summon an army stay alive right above their front door?) Funny thing is, the missions jerkface sends you on are in the same exact places that scientist at the institute asks you to clear out, when you are working with them. They've never been to Arcjet, yet they somehow knew a prototype (top secret) radar-booster was there? I think not. Either Bethesda's writers are terrible, or there is a much deeper and sinister plot afoot, in the background (and we all know Bethesda writes literature on a scale to make Shakespeare jealous LOL).

 

The lone survivor is definitely a synth,. In fact, it practically confirmed when you go talk to DiMa at Far Harbor (Your character realizes they only have ONE MEMORY from before being frozen... JUST ONE). Why would Father recreate child-Shaun and not the parents? He wanted to see what kind of life he would have had, had it not been interrupted.

[MarkusTay]

@Haravikk - Thats true (about the button). I just realized, that vault is one without a pipboy-based opener terminal outside the vault door. Come to think of it, most of them don't have that... why'd Vault 81 have one? O.o

 

But I think Vaultec had another means of connecting to the Vaults aside from radio (which really would not work both underground, AND with heavy radiation). Nope - I think they had there own network, and the institute was able to hack that network. They needed someone 'on site' to get baby Shaun, but to release the Survivor? All they had to do was hack in and tell the vault to do it.

 

Not that i have definitive proof, or anything, but Vaultec was 'in bed' with the government on many levels (Vaultec itself was probably a front for the FO version of the CIA), and we see by so many other quests (including the Nuka-Cola one) that by the time the bombs fell, every major company was working on secret crap for the gov't, and we see in the College Point ruins that the government did indeed have a 'secret bunker' there to develop weapons... and College Point was part of the institute pre-Apocalypse. Thus, in a round-about way, there's proof that the institute was working closely with the feds, and also proof that Vaultec was, if not having actually been a covert fed operation itself, so it stands to reason that the institute may have had access to some of Vaultec's secrets (or they could have found them later, by sifting through the ruins of the head offices right there in Boston).

 

So I'm of a mind that the institute could hack into any Vault they wanted, at any time. Only if they needed to retrieve something would they need to go there in-person.

 

And maybe they even stole the idea for those 'Gen 3 synths' from Vaultec... after all, they are NOT 'robots', they are really clones.

 

GARY...........

[Haravikk]

I think Vaultec had another means of connecting to the Vaults aside from radio (which really would not work both underground, AND with heavy radiation).

 

 

Actually I think most vaults do have some kind of external communications as many of them refer to receiving an all-clear signal from Vault-Tec to inform them when it is safe to open their vault door, some Vault 81 residents make a point about being able to receive the Diamond City radio signal, even though the door had been closed prior to your arrival. So while I would assume radio signals themselves can't penetrate the vault walls, there must be a cable and antenna somewhere that allows for outside signals to be received in a controlled fashion.

 

 

I just replayed the Mass Fusion quest for the Brotherhood of Steel, and it does seem to confirm that the Institute's Relay doesn't work underground (with the exception of the Institute itself, which has the equipment for it), as while you are attacked by waves of Synths on all floors above the lobby, there are no synths at all on the lower (below ground) levels, suggesting they can relay directly into the reactor control room.

 

So I think there being some kind of Vault-Tec override is probably the most reasonable answer like you say, as I suppose Vault-Tec must have known some of their experiments would be disasters and require vaults to be reopened externally to discovery why.

 

Not sure why Vault 81 has an external panel though, except for "how else can the player get in" reasons, as there's no obvious special reason for it since it's supposed to appear to be a control vault, and the experimental second vault relies on secrecy. Unless the Vault 81 residents put it in themselves maybe, to allow for outside contact while keeping the door closed?

 

 

Also, I figured out why I didn't have the conservation with Father on the rooftop before; it requires you to stay with the Institute until you get the Battle for Bunker Hill quest, the conversation occurs no matter how you resolved it (even if you informed the Brotherhood of Steel, it's your choice of who to do Mass Fusion for that then locks you out).

 

On my last play through I think I didn't like the sound of the Bunker Hill operation and refused to do it and that either locked me out of the Institute, or meant I would have to go back and agree to do it in order to progress, but I never did.

 

One of my gripes with Fallout 4 is that there are quite a few important conversations that either don't happen at all (the Brotherhood doesn't care at all what you saw inside the Institute, only that you got Dr. Li out or not) or that happen in weird places, like this rooftop conversation when it has questions I wanted to ask right away.

Edited January 22, 2019 by Haravikk

[Stronglav]

No spoilers.When you get to the Institute after battle of Bunker Hill go speak to Father and he will answer all your questions.

[montky]

re post#1

great questions

 

 

 

RE Kellogg's entry.

The Institute has a Site-to-Site Molecular Relay, they 'teleported' into V111, and teleported away.

The Teleporter log history, the power generator in the institute etc, all suggest that the teleporter has been used too much, to the chagrin of the folks needing to have power... recall that, this is why the final quest causes you to decide where Mass Fusion Tower's power core will ultimately wind up.

The Institute wants the power core, to assure their use of the Teleporter, as much as to expand their under-ground facilities.

 

in fanon-

I modded the crud outta the Under-Sanctuary, connecting Red Rocket Spa and Resort North Concord to V111 underground,

implying the Enclave was unable to Sap in or open the blast door, abandoning V111.

The Enclave was unable to divert sufficient resources, and had a few nearby robots assisting

(explaining partially why Codsworth is still alive)

 

I left a few notes implying that Kellogg and the gang had to finish the tunnel themselves

the last 300ft or so to actually blast their way in. The Institute hand-held scanners were better than the Enclaves;

they could see a quicker route to complete the tunnel.

"why couldn't we just teleport directly in there?!" on the gum-wrapper too,

indicating that Kellogg may be trying to quit smoking...

Kellogg, in my modded fanon FO4, is closer aligned with The Shi than other folks,

and therefore, gets along better with Captain Zao.

this provides the non-violent resolution options with Captain Zao.

It is possible to retain Kellogg, and defeat the SRB.

Kellogg then vanishes into the wasteland, becoming something of a "mysterious stranger".

 

Kellogg just wants freedom, if there's anything of Kellogg left at all.

The Institute used Kellogg as a mindless go-between, wiping his short term memory when it suited them...

so, Kellogg would want to find ways to prevent being hacked, and regain their own sense of autonomy.

 

 

 

RE who unfreezes the Sole Survivor;

a) it is an automated process which is set in motion from when Kellogg first abducts Shaun,

'superdeterministically' etc.

b) the institute hacks in and causes a thawing.

c) fanon - V111 and V112 have a lot more in common. so, the institute negotiates with Stanislaus Braun for the Sole's Return...

d) it was some other stochastic event which Father claims credit for

 

 

 

So,

I tend to think it is a combination of B, C, and D.

B - there's a possibility that, they may have been lost.

 

D is possibly Mr House too, who intends to complete their takeover of General Atomics,

and make all Robco terminals and 99.8% of electronics Pay-Per-Boot + Pay-Per-Runtime etc...

 

C causes there to be a guilt trip.

Perhaps, Stanislaus negotiated with the Institute, releasing one individual, in exchange for a Gen 3 Synth form for themselves...

 

 

[Zzyxzz]

Or maybe, nothing was real. The Player had a loooong sleep and dreamed a lot of crazy stuff.

Then after the dream is over, the cryopods are openend, they move to the surface and Fallout 45 begins. At the surface you can breakup with your wife and kid, say goodbye and move to new adventures!

 

Because... the game was rigged from the start.