Are Debates Ever Really Won?

[Kendo 2]

Seriously? You want me to type out a list of solutions to a problem that everyone here has the means to address on their own? Do I actually need to type out 'treat others the way you want to be treated', 'don't be a douche bag', 'you can't be right every time', 'it is okay to be wrong so just let it go when someone bests you', etc. You really want me to type out a list? SERIOUSLY?

 

Okay, here's THE SOLUTION. Be responsible.

[ginnyfizz]

But it is neither your place nor mine, HeyYou, (and hence I don;t do it) to effectively decide who does or does not have the right to post in any threads, for that is effectively what asking someone "Why are you here" is doing. I thought that was down to the staff.

Kendo used to be very active in debates, if you actually read all of what he says. As did I for that matter. I feel that there is a clique in debates and that "interlopers" are not welcomed by that clique.

 

I believe HeyYou is trying to do, perhaps is not getting his point across, what everyone wants people in the debates section to do...which is support your stance.

 

However it is my job (among others) to say who is here and who is not.

 

I tire of many of you in this thread. Kendo..I think you have more than gotten your point across. HeyYou....as have you. Ginny...go have some tea.

~Lisnpuppy

[DaedalusMachina]

One of the biggest problems with the Debates forum is that there's probably a grand total of three people who actually use it for debate, and everybody else uses it for soapboxing.

 

Debate does not mean "Take a stand and defend it from all attackers" it means "Argue a point, while also understanding the opposition."

 

Something nobody seems to realize is that there is never, ever two sides to anything. There's usually around a few million.

[HeyYou]

One of the biggest problems with the Debates forum is that there's probably a grand total of three people who actually use it for debate, and everybody else uses it for soapboxing.

 

Debate does not mean "Take a stand and defend it from all attackers" it means "Argue a point, while also understanding the opposition."

 

Something nobody seems to realize is that there is never, ever two sides to anything. There's usually around a few million.

 

Everyone has their view. :) On that, I will most certainly agree.

 

Lisnpuppy put it quite well. Evidently, I do not always get my point across as well as I would like.

 

@Kendo: I agree with your solution. That would be really nice. But, human nature tends to interfere with that..... For the most part, the folks here are rather opinionated.... big surprise there huh.. and I haven't met too many people that will happily admit they are wrong, especially on the internet. Also, for a fair few of the discussions here, (as that is more what they are, rather than debates....) "wrong" is rather nebulous. Whether you are wrong or not, is entirely a matter of perspective. I am sure the proponents of gun control believe they are right, as do the opponents. Of course, that is one of the topics that I suspect neither side is ever going to convince the other of whose position has more merit.

 

I have zero desire to exclude anyone that wants to participate. The more the merrier. ESPECIALLY those that can present themselves in coherent manner, and back up what they say with facts, or legal precedent, or whatever the situation calls for at the time. In all reality, I would LOVE to see MORE folks contributing here. We have an extremely wide selection of folks, from many different walks of life, all with one common denominator, we are all gamers to one degree or another. So, we all have at least one thing in common. Perhaps we should concentrate more on that?

[Kendo 2]

@ HeyYou

I had a very long and pointed post and I'm not leaving it up. I'll PM it to you.

[Kendo 2]

:facepalm:

[Keanumoreira]

I don't think a debate is suppose to be won at all. That's why it's a debate, right? You form your thesis, someone inevitably comes along with an antithesis, and as a result (as it SHOULD happen) it forms a synthesis of ideas after much arguing ensues. As DaedalusMachina pointed out quite nicely, and to which I agree, there is always more to the debate, even if in essence it is "won". A debate is never truly won. That is just mere perspective. There is always more, I feel, that can result from it. There's so much more we can learn from each other.

 

But, that's just my opinion. :happy:

Edited July 28, 2012 by Keanumoreira

[Nintii]

But it is neither your place nor mine, HeyYou, (and hence I don;t do it) to effectively decide who does or does not have the right to post in any threads, for that is effectively what asking someone "Why are you here" is doing. I thought that was down to the staff.

Kendo used to be very active in debates, if you actually read all of what he says. As did I for that matter. I feel that there is a clique in debates and that "interlopers" are not welcomed by that clique.

 

 

This is a fact plain and simple ... and is sadly the reason why many people don't want to participate here anymore.

I'm extremely very busy these days hence my excessively reduced postings here ... but it is quite obvious that there is a clique here and sadly only those in it don't seem to

think that others don't recognise that fact ... how sad.

I for one post here to add my opinion to a topic ... I'm not moved if someone doesn't reply or respond to it ... some here think that if they ignore you then you'll go away ... thing is

I'm pretty complete as a person and don't go running around craving atttention ... I do have a life.

 

But anyhow back to the topic at hand ...

 

What I find immensly rewarding is the challenge I have to defend my own opinions to myself by the brilliant arguements from both sides of the spectrum ... I sometimes spend

hours if I have the time ... increasing my understanding on an issue ... and yes, I have had a rethink on many a belief I've held.

And if need be I have no qualms in mentioning it publicly either.

What I find amazing is the total rigidty of people who stick to their guns when it's obvious that another person's point has validity ... this is what friend of mine from Texas says is "ignorance gone to seed".

 

“I can be on guard against my enemies, but God deliver me from my friends!”

― Charlotte Brontë, The Letters of Charlotte Brontë

Edited July 28, 2012 by Nintii

[HeyYou]

But it is neither your place nor mine, HeyYou, (and hence I don;t do it) to effectively decide who does or does not have the right to post in any threads, for that is effectively what asking someone "Why are you here" is doing. I thought that was down to the staff.

Kendo used to be very active in debates, if you actually read all of what he says. As did I for that matter. I feel that there is a clique in debates and that "interlopers" are not welcomed by that clique.

 

 

This is a fact plain and simple ... and is sadly the reason why many people don't want to participate here anymore.

I'm extremely very busy these days hence my excessively reduced postings here ... but it is quite obvious that there is a clique here and sadly only those in it don't seem to

think that others don't recognise that fact ... how sad.

I for one post here to add my opinion to a topic ... I'm not moved if someone doesn't reply or respond to it ... some here think that if they ignore you then you'll go away ... thing is

I'm pretty complete as a person and don't go running around craving atttention ... I do have a life.

 

But anyhow back to the topic at hand ...

 

What I find immensly rewarding is the challenge I have to defend my own opinions to myself by the brilliant arguements from both sides of the spectrum ... I sometimes spend

hours if I have the time ... increasing my understanding on an issue ... and yes, I have had a rethink on many a belief I've held.

And if need be I have no qualms in mentioning it publicly either.

What I find amazing is the total rigidty of people who stick to their guns when it's obvious that another person's point has validity ... this is what friend of mine from Texas says is "ignorance gone to seed".

 

“I can be on guard against my enemies, but God deliver me from my friends!”

― Charlotte Brontë, The Letters of Charlotte Brontë

 

Every point has validity, but, just becomes someones point is valid, doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Should I not defend my opinions? Shall I bow to someone that has a valid point, just because it IS valid? Does someone else having a valid point, make mine INvalid??

 

For example: Sure, banning assault weapons altogether has the real possibility of reducing crimes committed with them, and that is a valid stance. Shall I change my opinion on what my constitutional rights are, based on that? If your answer is 'yes', I'm afraid I am going to have to disagree.

[Kendo 2]

Every point has validity, but, just becomes someones point is valid, doesn't mean I have to agree with it. Should I not defend my opinions? Shall I bow to someone that has a valid point, just because it IS valid? Does someone else having a valid point, make mine INvalid??

 

For example: Sure, banning assault weapons altogether has the real possibility of reducing crimes committed with them, and that is a valid stance. Shall I change my opinion on what my constitutional rights are, based on that? If your answer is 'yes', I'm afraid I am going to have to disagree.

 

Shall I bow to someone that has a valid point, just because it IS valid?

 

I'm gonna go with YES. It shows good sportsmanship and demonstrates the ability to 'be wrong' and admit it. As these are not real debates ceding the point is just as valid as not doing so.

 

Goes back to 'right at any cost'.

 

I have zero desire to exclude anyone that wants to participate. The more the merrier. ESPECIALLY those that can present themselves in coherent manner, and back up what they say with facts, or legal precedent, or whatever the situation calls for at the time. In all reality, I would LOVE to see MORE folks contributing here. We have an extremely wide selection of folks, from many different walks of life, all with one common denominator, we are all gamers to one degree or another. So, we all have at least one thing in common. Perhaps we should concentrate more on that?

 

I have zero desire to exclude anyone that wants to participate.

I would LOVE to see MORE folks contributing here.

 

Yet the 'I'm not willing to surrender the point' attitude accomplishes the first and prevents the second.