Witchcraft - lore friendly?

[Mudran]

It would be interesting to sort out roots of magic in fantasy, so I can understand (even more) why people don't like it in Fallout.

 

1. the oldest roots is mytology, and that is always with gods and demons.

A) I think every shamanism, which wasn't enhanced in fantasy world, is around that. I still believe that could be in Fallout - with indians and their shamanic dances/smoking weeds, with Black people (Africans) with woodoo, from concept art I believe that mama Murphy should be voodoo user or it was inspiration for her before she turned white junkie :tongue: and it started to look a bit wierd.

 

B) mytology was enhanced into "better abilities blessed by god" or anomaly =supermans, which is OK for many people in Fallout ? Because that doesn't sound so serious?

 

C) world with magical beings - OK for many players in the form of magic replaced by uranium and alchemy

 

D) You are semigod - so you can create elements and throw them - maybe that is why many people don't consider this being "realistic" but it is ok if it is created and placed in a weapon

 

2. enhanced history, which is anything in history taken into fantasy:

 

A) book of spells - what is book of spell other than fantasy version of secret book of cabal magical words, which is based on hebrew theology? So isn't it more realistic? But I don't know how a crazy Fallout version of that would looks like

B) ghosts - based on faith in spiritual world, which is common to allmost all religions and also magic. But it was enhanced by rituals and people having ability to see spiritual world - a version of witchcraft

C) herbs - used for healing body, which was further used in rituals, and expanded with magical influences - that is also something I could imagine in Fallout

D) signing - used with herbs/dance/music - as a form of getting favor from god or from spirits

C) alchemy - enchanced version of herbs, pre version of science - is acceptable in Fallout, but not used,, because it feels old I guess

 

3. newer history - the end of 19 century

A) no magic, everything is explained by brain - when a lot of science was discovered, the new faith started without limitations of myths and punishments

- father Jules Werne, steampunk - close to Fallout?

B) no magic everything is explained by brain, except very weird scary things - like Vampires, werewolves, witches, old beings.

- Dracula, Frankenstein, Lovecraft

C) still religion+occult

 

So modern fantasy is:

A) horror - S. King

B) occult+artifacts - Hitler, secret societies

C) different mishmashes of all the previous

D) pure fantasy based on mythology - there is an alternative world with magical being and different god/creator

- father Tolkien

 

So if in Fallout everything is somehow funny, twisted, yet possible to explain, then I still imagine a vault, where weird things happen like some sort of Hitler paranormal research based experiments (also like in Secret world) but those abilities would be used for stupid things or something like that.

 

Also fireballs and magic like that is based on Gandalf, which was basically semigod, so it was OK for him to throw fireballs, but anyway he was using staff - so ok for fallout :tongue:

 

And why fallout should be mainly technical, when the whole post apocalyptic world is usually based on idea that technology failed?

You have talking robots - which are OK, because it is technology, you have mutated animals - ok also, but not talking animals?

 

I guess I'm too far away from technical thinking - I will never understand it.

 

I just realized that blood mages are based on faith that blood has power in important information about the person, so that could be explained with science. But anyway I would say the root of that is religious rituals.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Mudran

[nexbil01]

You should look into Shadowrun

[Moraelin]

Who said anything about it being only in Fallout? If I may use myself as an example, if you look at my Skyrim portfolio and pictures posted, you'll notice the same thing: as far as I'm concerned, if something isn't stopped by 6 ft of good sharpened steel, then it was probably immune to magic too :tongue:

 

In fact, I never ported even my wand to Skyrim or Oblivion, because I don't actually want to use one in Tamriel. That's right. I'm even less interested in magic in Skyrim than in Fallout :tongue:

 

The rest is simple:

- why fallout is mainly technical? Because Beth said so, and that's that.

- why not talking animals? Err, have you actually played Fallout 2? Between the whole vault full of talking deathclaws and the Pinky And The Brain thing, talking animals are quite standard lore.

 

But ultimately, it's the same question: what business is it of yours why I'm not playing a mage? I'm not asking why you want to play one. If you want to play one, play one. You don't need to convince everyone to approve of your choices.

 

Look, we're not judging. You want to wear a dress... err... robe, and play with your staff and (crystal) balls, there's nothing wrong with that. But unless you're Bethesda, no amount of handwaving and talking nonsense is going to make it canon. Why is that so hard to understand?

[Mudran]

OK :smile:

 

I was told, that really a lot of Fallout original setting is from American culture of 50ties and maybe if I don't know it, it is hard to understand what it is about. And that was missing in my timeline, because it is more about scifi and comics. biggest theme was again science - new growth after the war and positive future, true is 50ties wasn't about anything occultic - that was 60ties and 70ties:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_in_the_1950s

 

So I guess that simple it is.

 

Shadowrun on wiki sounds like something I would want to play, but I never had the chance - a lot of indians :smile:. And possibilities like in fantasy.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Mudran

[Mudran]

So themes in comics was:

Western, Romance, Scifi and Horror - that is in Fallout already :smile:

 

Themes in movies:

similar+historical

but also a lot of monsters like Rodan and Godzilla

 

So if I would want to enhance magic, I would have to look at some books/movies from that time and there was:

Wizard of Oz movie

Peter Pan :smile:

Fairy tale antology for kids

alice in Wonderland

 

LOL none of that I can really imagine in Fallout.

Edited March 14, 2019 by Mudran

[Moraelin]

Mate, as the Wicca motto goes: as long as it harms no one, do what you will :tongue:

[nexbil01]

I remember a few years ago that the board game dungeons and dragons tried to introduce lasers in one of their expansions and it didn't go very well. They pretty much pretended it never happened. I think that a lot of people get invested into a motif or genre and resist any changes to that but it can be done successfully as in the case of shadowrun

[Mudran]

Mate, as the Wicca motto goes: as long as it harms no one, do what you will :tongue:

 

Man, I'm so lazy, but if someone will kick me a few more times, maybe I will finally learn all I need to finish all those unfinished mods and start that vault of fully developed witches (200 years should be enough :tongue:) and I will connect it to Fairy land ... somehow ;-)

Edited March 15, 2019 by Mudran

[Mudran]

But instead of making mod I was reading about american literature and it looks like even Vampires are lore friendly: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Legend_(novel)

Also all kinds of pandemic horror like themes, so even Metro could be lore friendly :p.

 

But also I have found that Bethesda was really trying to stick to the lore of 50ties, not Obsidian itself.

 

So Hancock and his small city could be alternative world to Kerouac and his growing society of counterculture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Road

But main focus is science:

Cabot family and the institute is mirror of obsession with genetic research.

Aliens with psi powers and robots themes are themes of Heinlein and Bradbury and Clarke, who was British, but still OK for Fallout, unlike Tolkien and his friend, who wrote fantasy, because that was far away from American culture full of family and wealth of middle class focus.

 

I remember a few years ago that the board game dungeons and dragons tried to introduce lasers in one of their expansions and it didn't go very well. They pretty much pretended it never happened. I think that a lot of people get invested into a motif or genre and resist any changes to that but it can be done successfully as in the case of shadowrun

 

My thoughts as well :)

[nexbil01]

One thing I found that was a bit counterculture was that on the road going west from boston going to oberland station is an old organic vegetable stand. Under the counter you can find daytripper and in the back is a chem lab where they were obviously were making and selling illicit prewar chems. Also, Sunshine co-op seems to have been something of a hippie commune style community which is how I am building it out as. I am still looking for a mod that makes hippie style clothes though.

 

Bethesda itself has been pushing this lovecraftian side quest involving dunwich borers in Fallout 3 and 4. That might be something to explore.