Internet Trolling...should it be a criminal offence

[Syco21]

In an extreme situation, this means completely breaking all ties to whatever online groups you might be part of, cancelling e-mails, or no longer being able to do anything online. It's incredibly easy to say "just stop using the internet", but is becoming much harder to actually do. This whole thing becomes even more complicated if you have anything that links your username to an actual name since a determined person can decide to harass you in real life, spread lies to your friends, or cause other sorts of damage.

This is already a crime. As for your little speech about consequences.

 

You're basically saying you have the freedom to say what you want, unless it's something I don't like.

[Talwyn224]

Anyone can post anything they wish - that's their freedom of choice and expression. It is what is expressed and said in that post is the issue and as such, the consequences and repercussions of making such posts are what many trolls fail to think on.

 

In addition, having a right to say something is concomitant with having a responsibility to conduct ones self in a manner that is acceptable to a community which everyone is a part of. Behave in a manner that the community and society at large deem unacceptable and you have to face the consequences. It is as simple as that.

 

An opinion or statement that is contrary to your own set of beliefs and morals may be something that you do not like but that in itself is not actionable nor can it be seen as worthy of reporting. There is a clear and obvious distinction between expressing an idea/opinion and behaving like an offensive troll. If you don't like what is said, toughen up a bit and move on. If though it's blatantly offensive, act immediately and report it to the relevant authorities.

 

Outright insults, inflammatory remarks, slanderous and libels are all covered under various legal statutes in many nations and if such offences occur , then it is up to the plaintiff to respond. In addition, admins who police forums like this one, will also carefully watch and vet out items that they view as inflammatory and either issue rebukes or bans to the offending party. And of course if the trolling goes beyond a simple forum to a persons other online profiles such as Twitter etc, then they [the plaintiff] have every right to contact the appropriate authorities and pursue the matter through the justice system.

 

 

What most trolls fail to grasp is that they are not immune from their actions. Many have gotten away with it in the past however the tide of public opinion online is turning and as such, behaviour that is deemed offensive, even if it's trying to cower under the fig leaf of "free speech" will no longer be as easy to get away with as previously. I am for a tolerant online society however I firmly believe that using the anonymity of the internet to launch hateful attacks on people is something that deserves zero tolerance and should be roundly condemned in the harshest manner.

 

People also often trot out the free speech dogma and use the line,

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Yet there are laws which clearly speak against this which means not all speech is free and thus it is important to choose ones words and what you say with care and consideration.

[As a side note, this quote is mistakenly attributed to Voltaire but in reality it was Evelyn Beatrice Hall who coined the phrase in her book "The Friends of Voltaire". She put the words in Voltaire's mouth so to speak]

 

 

 

:thumbsup:

[Sync182]

TL;DR - I read the first page, then skipped to posting.

 

Internet Trolling (the serious ones with a problem, rather than the idiotic ones who like to get people annoyed) is a blight that needs to be shut down. Will it be shut down? Very unlikely.

 

(WARNING: generic comments approaching!)

 

You can say what you want about Freedom of Speech - but what about my right to not be harrassed? At what point is the line drawn between your right to Free Speech and my right to not suffer stress and harassment?

 

That's what this new law may be trying to address, and by attempting to make trolls more accountable.

 

You do NOT have the right to say anything you like. There are plenty of Workplace laws governing harassment that prove this. You DO have the obligation to be mindful of other people.

 

 

It is what is expressed and said in that post is the issue and as such, the consequences and repercussions of making such posts are what many trolls fail to think on.

 

...OR give a Tinker's Cuss about. >.>

Edited August 4, 2012 by Sync182

[marharth]

TL;DR - I read the first page, then skipped to posting.

 

Internet Trolling (the serious ones with a problem, rather than the idiotic ones who like to get people annoyed) is a blight that needs to be shut down. Will it be shut down? Very unlikely.

 

(WARNING: generic comments approaching!)

 

You can say what you want about Freedom of Speech - but what about my right to not be harrassed? At what point is the line drawn between your right to Free Speech and my right to not suffer stress and harassment?

 

That's what this new law may be trying to address, and by attempting to make trolls more accountable.

 

You do NOT have the right to say anything you like. There are plenty of Workplace laws governing harassment that prove this. You DO have the obligation to be mindful of other people.

 

 

It is what is expressed and said in that post is the issue and as such, the consequences and repercussions of making such posts are what many trolls fail to think on.

 

...OR give a Tinker's Cuss about. >.>

Where is the line drawn for what you consider harassment?

 

What if you get upset over a political view? What if you get upset over a religious view?

 

It doesn't matter if you get upset in my opinion. You need to learn how to deal with these things and not take them seriously. Shouldn't be punishing people who might make you a bit mad just because you can't deal with different views or opinions.

[ginnyfizz]

It goes beyond mere getting upset at people being rude, marharth. You need to grasp that some of what these trolls do could have the result of getting the victim in serious trouble of one sort or another. You perhaps haven't been the victim of a serious troll, I and a few of the other posters here have been. And if they are seriously disturbed enough, not feeding them doesn't make them go away.

What does make me mad is being told to just deal with it - is this in itself not failing to respect the opinions and experience of people who HAVE had a serious trolling?

 

I am going to PM you with something which should make you think.

[marharth]

It goes beyond mere getting upset at people being rude, marharth. You need to grasp that some of what these trolls do could have the result of getting the victim in serious trouble of one sort or another. You perhaps haven't been the victim of a serious troll, I and a few of the other posters here have been. And if they are seriously disturbed enough, not feeding them doesn't make them go away.

What does make me mad is being told to just deal with it - is this in itself not failing to respect the opinions and experience of people who HAVE had a serious trolling?

 

I am going to PM you with something which should make you think.

I read your PM, this is more of a response to the PM then the above message.

 

I understand that a lot of trolls can be terrible people, but is it really worth criminalizing it?

 

It seems like what you mentioned could already fall under other laws.

 

My general point is that trying to make "trolling" illegal or regulating the internet is a bad idea in general. If you need to make this illegal, make laws that do not specifically target online activities.

[Vagrant0]

In an extreme situation, this means completely breaking all ties to whatever online groups you might be part of, cancelling e-mails, or no longer being able to do anything online. It's incredibly easy to say "just stop using the internet", but is becoming much harder to actually do. This whole thing becomes even more complicated if you have anything that links your username to an actual name since a determined person can decide to harass you in real life, spread lies to your friends, or cause other sorts of damage.

This is already a crime. As for your little speech about consequences.

 

You're basically saying you have the freedom to say what you want, unless it's something I don't like.

Nope...

 

You're still free to say something I don't like, but that does not protect you from me disliking you for it, pressing charges, assuming suspicion, writing you off as a loon, rebutting with something you don't like, or punching your face in (freedom of expression) (assault carries its own separate consequences which are sometimes totally worth it).

 

As for forcing someone to drop off the face of the earth through constant harassment, crime or not, it doesn't get enforced and I know more than a few people who have had to sever all ties for awhile because of some a**hole/*censored* in their life. It can't really be enforced without knowing who the actual party is who is doing the harassment, which is not always easy.

[ginnyfizz]

I have said that I feel the existing law is enough to cover the serious cases. The only problem is access to the law for victims of serious trolling, which costs money. In the UK, lawyers are not so willing to take cases on a contingency fee basis as they are in the USA. It was only made legal for UK lawyers to take cases on this basis relatively recently. So a lot of victims might simply not be able to afford to take civil actions. Where the trolling constitutes a criminal offence, then of course you have to persuade the police and the CPS to take action, and then you might potentially be into an extradition situation. Now whereas the USA for example will demand extradition of British citizens for relatively silly copyright infringement allegations, they are not quite so ready to agree to British extradition requests for their citizens. All countries can get a bit arsey about extraditing, except dear old Britain who agree to anything.

[Talwyn224]

 

Where is the line drawn for what you consider harassment?

 

 

It is drawn from evidence of repeated posts of a nature deemed defamatory, inflammatory and considered worthy of further action by the relevant authorities [ie; police] who will use the offending posts in their case against the troll who made them.

 

 

What if you get upset over a political view? What if you get upset over a religious view?

 

 

Being upset by an alternative/conflicting view point is totally different from being targeted and personally abused via social media.

One is a matter of personal choice on how you react as an individual, the other is a legal matter. Please note the distinction because that is what the issue here is.

 

 

It doesn't matter if you get upset in my opinion. You need to learn how to deal with these things and not take them seriously. Shouldn't be punishing people who might make you a bit mad just because you can't deal with different views or opinions.

 

 

While the last statement isn't trolling, it can be viewed as provocative and challenging in its tone due to the language used.

 

Telling someone that they need to "learn" something indicates a degree of hauteur to put it mildly. It's also like I said previously, take that sort of tone out in the real world and see how far that gets you. It's not the sort of tone or attitude that automatically wins friends and influences people. Asking them to consider being less thin skinned might have been a more agreeable statement to make. See the difference?

 

Not everyone can take a teaspoon of cement and harden the f*ck up as you'd like them to and many do take umbrage at things posted/said which initially were not actually intended to cause offence. But again, taking offence is a totally different issue when it's being compared to being vilified & harassed by a troll.

 

This is why it's important that care is taken when choosing what is written/said especially in a setting like a forum.

 

Now lets all join hands and sing KOM-BAH-YAH

 

:tongue:

Edited August 4, 2012 by Talwyn224

[marharth]

If you want to make bullying or trolling illegal, why make it illegal for social media and online interactions? Why not make the law in a way that would apply to everything and not solely focus on internet? Edited August 4, 2012 by marharth