Internet Trolling...should it be a criminal offence

[JimboUK]

People can just use a pay phone or something similar.

Pay phones? What are those? Oh... you mean those mostly extinct things that they used to have in subway stations and airports which are now almost certainly all watched by one or two cameras? There are no more payphones on street corners, or outside places of business. As each pay phone has a unique number tied to a specific location, and everyone has video surveillance these days, that's pretty much a sure way to leave a trail. Granted that it is unlikely for anyone to be bothered enough to track you down, it isn't usually a viable method of harassing someone since there are so few pay phones around any more. And even then, you're dropping about a $0.50 in change every time, and usually wasting it since everyone screens their calls these days due to the constant telemarketers and campaign calls. There are cheaper and easier methods these days to get your misanthropic fun.

There are methods of using computers for calls that can not be traced as well.

 

Still that only addressed one part of my point.

 

There are plenty of pre pay cellphones, none of which require ID or registration.

 

 

In my country all you could do is to file a libel case. Of course the suspect must be within the country. There have been reports where someone filed a libel for because of youtube trolling.

 

That's all this new law does, it makes it easier to sue if the troll if you can afford it, if they have anything and if they're not a minor.

[HeyYou]

Defamation of character? On the internet? Hhhhmmm.......

 

Ever watch political ads? Of late, they have been nothing BUT attack ads, defaming or otherwise calling into question the character of some political figure or other.. So are we going to see a rash of politicians suing their opponents under such laws???

[Vagrant0]

There are methods of using computers for calls that can not be traced as well.

 

Still that only addressed one part of my point.

 

There are plenty of pre pay cellphones, none of which require ID or registration.

The point I was making was not that there were not alternative methods which could be used... Just that most of those methods end up being easier to link back, or have real costs associated with them to generally discourage harassing someone over the phone. There are relatively few people who would buy a pre-payed cellphone just to prank call others, compared to the relative ease related to just trolling online.

 

Defamation of character? On the internet? Hhhhmmm.......

 

Ever watch political ads? Of late, they have been nothing BUT attack ads, defaming or otherwise calling into question the character of some political figure or other.. So are we going to see a rash of politicians suing their opponents under such laws???

Political ads are designed to get around such things by indirectly suggesting something about an opponent rather than saying it outright, or providing proof that is in the public record. It isn't defamation of character if you leave ambiguity of what is being said, or if you are just stating facts.

[Syco21]

@Syco21

I think you are misunderstanding... well everything. The reason why it cannot currently be enforced is that people are able to hide behind their ISP and remain anonymous. The reason why it cannot be enforced is because both parties may not be in the same country or one of them may be a minor, or other similar situation which makes legal prosecution difficult. The bill we are discussing does NOT make trolling illegal. All it does is add in a provision so that victims have a legal recourse towards requesting the identity of an individual for the purposes of a civil suit, or to provide enough evidence to that ISP to discontinue service to that customer. And this sort of thing would likely only occur in some of the more extreme situations.

 

Freedom of speech does not apply anywhere in this whole thing.

You don't need a new law for that, either. Get a court order.

[mizdarby]

Defamation of character? On the internet? Hhhhmmm.......

 

Ever watch political ads? Of late, they have been nothing BUT attack ads, defaming or otherwise calling into question the character of some political figure or other.. So are we going to see a rash of politicians suing their opponents under such laws???

I would love to see politicians sue the asses off of each other. Though they are not quite trolling, at least not to the extreme, and probably wouldn't be able to use any new anti-trolling laws to initiate civil cases, the sheer threat of being sued, just might make them talk about their own policies, rather than throwing cheap shots at their opponents.

[JimboUK]

There are methods of using computers for calls that can not be traced as well.

 

Still that only addressed one part of my point.

 

There are plenty of pre pay cellphones, none of which require ID or registration.

The point I was making was not that there were not alternative methods which could be used... Just that most of those methods end up being easier to link back, or have real costs associated with them to generally discourage harassing someone over the phone. There are relatively few people who would buy a pre-payed cellphone just to prank call others, compared to the relative ease related to just trolling online.

 

True very few people would buy one just to troll but many people have them already, pre pay is ideal for kids and teenagers who can't really be trusted to keep usage down. the very group likely to be behind most of it. That said using a phone to harass someone is a very silly thing to do, it is taken far more seriously. Withheld numbers can still be traced and the location of cellphone calls is easy to work out should the police decide to investigate matters.

[ginnyfizz]

If a defamation is published and in permanent form, it's libel. Internet trolling of an extreme form would be covered by this. There is no reason why the internet would not be subject, if you could trace the troll.

 

The case is quite different for politicians effectively trolling each other, where their comments might be construed as "fair comment on a matter of public interest" - one of the defences to an action for defamation under English law at any rate. Where it might cross the line is if one politician accused another of a criminal offence. In English law, imputation of a criminal offence is a very specific form of actionable libel that is taken very seriously, as in many professions it could end your career. Of course if the defendant succeeded with the defences of either (a) truth or (b) fair comment on a matter of public interest, that would happen anyway.

 

Yeah sure, get a court order...if you can afford one. Read my previous posts, not that easy when lawyers demand money up front rather than on a contingency basis.

[Vagrant0]

Yeah sure, get a court order...if you can afford one. Read my previous posts, not that easy when lawyers demand money up front rather than on a contingency basis.

You forgot being able to know who the person was in the first place. Most ISPs don't necessarily keep very good records, retain them for long periods of times, or in the case of mobile providers, the IP is usually shared and aggregated. If a proxy is used, the reliability of getting any useful information depends largely on where that proxy is stationed and what their own policies and logistic capabilities are.

[ginnyfizz]

Yeah sure, get a court order...if you can afford one. Read my previous posts, not that easy when lawyers demand money up front rather than on a contingency basis.

You forgot being able to know who the person was in the first place. Most ISPs don't necessarily keep very good records, retain them for long periods of times, or in the case of mobile providers, the IP is usually shared and aggregated. If a proxy is used, the reliability of getting any useful information depends largely on where that proxy is stationed and what their own policies and logistic capabilities are.

 

No I didn't, you quoted selectively and missed out the bit where I said "If you can trace the troll...". Also some of the nuttier ones are so over confident that they reveal exactly who they are. And certainly in Britain, ISPs are now required to hold a lot more info now than any of us are happy with, whether or not you have been misbehaving, you know, just in case Big Brother *woopsie* did I mean the Government...might want to use it.

[Syco21]

Yeah sure, get a court order...if you can afford one. Read my previous posts, not that easy when lawyers demand money up front rather than on a contingency basis.

You forgot being able to know who the person was in the first place. Most ISPs don't necessarily keep very good records, retain them for long periods of times, or in the case of mobile providers, the IP is usually shared and aggregated. If a proxy is used, the reliability of getting any useful information depends largely on where that proxy is stationed and what their own policies and logistic capabilities are.

Both of you forget that you can file a john doe lawsuit, then have a court order issued for getting the information you need and that you can file without a lawyer.

 

What do you want? The ability to just call up the ISP and demand all the personal information of someone without requiring a court order? Kay, now that stalker that you hate so much can have easy access to all of your personal information. While you're cutting through red tape to have the police/courts do something, they are hiding in your bushes outside your front window.