Anyone else disappointed with the Stormcloak questline?

[Lachdonin]

If Tullius had initially planned to take Ulfric to Cyrodiil, you can almost guarantee that the Thalmor were the cause of the change of plans. We know that the Thalmor have a vested interest in keeping the civil war going, and keeping Ulfric alive as long as possible. We also know that, while they spoke with Tullius in Helgen, no Thalmor were present for the execution, or the aftermath.

 

Thus, i think it's reasonable to assume that, as a 'heathen', the Thalmor had already prepared to demand that Ulfric be handed over to them (so they could let him escape and continue the civil war). Tullius, en route to Cyrodiil, heard about this, and decided he wasn't going to let the Thalmor have their way, so he diverted to Helgen for a summary execution. The Thalmor beat him there, probably making grandiose demands and threatening to have Tullius' command, before being sent away while Tullius went through with the executions.

[fifteenspades]

Maven being money hungry is the exact reason Riften isn't safe to take Ulfric too.

She knows how much he could net her, and how many people do you think would be willing to pay for him?

 

Golden rule of selling is never take the first offer given to you, so it could take some time for the empire to buy him back.

They could ofc just attack riften ( wouldn't be a good idea ).

 

Maven not being Jarl doesn't mean anything, Maven controls Riften everyone knows that. Jarl is just a figurehead.

"Pay her for the "convenience" of using her town, and let her gloat about how it was her that provided the stage for Ulfric's end. Similar to Balgruf - but a lot, lot shadier in tone."

Her convenience would be worth more then the empire would be willing to spend i bet.

 

If getting Ulfric back is going to cost more then the entire war and put the empire in a tough spot i doubt they would.

they have bigger concerns like you know the Thalmor. And since you know the Thalmor would want to keep the CW going for as long as possible you can bet they would be throwing money to get ulfric back, in the shadows ofc.

[demonicslayer85]

After going through both of the quests, I found that there is no actual good in both parties. ( Maybe Dovahkiin shud make his own Kingdom like Tiber Septim and he hand-picked his best choice for each hold. Besides, wiith Ysgramor's Wuuthrad we could always chase away the Thalmor and become a God later. oh wait, isn't the Dovahkiin being bound to Twilight Sepulcher.... that is one hell to spoil a dream of reuniting Skyrim under Dovahkiin's banner. )

 

Whatever the case, I only see a lot of not very useful leadership in Skyrim. Some are fools and some are at least a better ruler than most.

 

Maven in Riften = Silver-Blood in Markath. I believe they make it such a way that Stormcloak and Imperials have their corrupted and power hungry followers.

Siddgeir = lazy bump and spoilt brat of the Empire. 'I only eat the most succulent' - Let me feed you with some human flesh, my Jarl. See how succulent the bloodiest meat is.

Skald / Ignmund = the fools who think they can win. Always thinking about fighting but not even sure where the problem lies.

Korir = the racist Jarl and a not so bright one.

Elisif = the puppet of the Empire. Concern about her people but has no powers.

Laila = the only bright one in Ulfric's banner (knows about Ulfric's intention) but being cheated by Maven Black Briar.

Balgruf = a Jarl with too much concerns.

Idgrod = the mystic Jarl who see much but do little.

Ulfric = The 'champion' of Skyrim and everything for the Nords. The rest, you know it.

[Anska]

 

After going through both of the quests, I found that there is no actual good in both parties. ( Maybe Dovahkiin shud make his own Kingdom like Tiber Septim and he hand-picked his best choice for each hold. Besides, wiith Ysgramor's Wuuthrad we could always chase away the Thalmor and become a God later. oh wait, isn't the Dovahkiin being bound to Twilight Sepulcher.... that is one hell to spoil a dream of reuniting Skyrim under Dovahkiin's banner. )

 

Oh, the Twilight Sepulcher! Bound to Nocturnal are we? So, tell me, friend thief, in what way would the Dovahkin make a better ruler of Skyrim than the Emperor or Jarl Ulfric would? Or is it in the end just your dragonblood beckoning, calling out to your inner need for domination?

 

Sorry, couldn't resist. Seriously though, I've read a couple of times that the Dragonborn should just take over Skyrim so s/he could turn it into a juster, better place. Which is (apart from probably being a fun game idea) basically the same thing Ulfric is currently doing and perhaps underlines the idea that, in order to fundamentally change anything about Skyrim, you need the title and power of High King or Queen. Disapproving of Ulfric for wanting a position while at the same time wishing to take it over for oneself (for the same reasons no less) seems a tad hypocritical to me. Wouldn't you agree?

Edited August 18, 2013 by Anska

[fifteenspades]

They would both be doing the same thing obviously Ulfric and the Dragonborn.

But the key difference is as Dragonborn i will tell people this is how it is because it's how i want it too

that i purely took over because i am great and very greedy and selfish.

 

I won't use "nordic traditions" and religion as a legitimate excuse i will let people know straight up it's because me,me,me,me and i.

So in that sense it's not Hypocritical at least that's what i would do.

 

Maybe other dovahkins would do something different~

 

Also you don't "need" high king or Queen to change anything. You only "need" that if you want to do it in a favorable way.

[TheObstinateNoviceSmith]

After going through both of the quests, I found that there is no actual good in both parties. ( Maybe Dovahkiin shud make his own Kingdom like Tiber Septim and he hand-picked his best choice for each hold. Besides, wiith Ysgramor's Wuuthrad we could always chase away the Thalmor and become a God later. oh wait, isn't the Dovahkiin being bound to Twilight Sepulcher.... that is one hell to spoil a dream of reuniting Skyrim under Dovahkiin's banner. )

 

Whatever the case, I only see a lot of not very useful leadership in Skyrim. Some are fools and some are at least a better ruler than most.

 

There is good on both sides, just like there is bad. I would still prefer to have the option to become the ruler of Skyrim because why not? I do most of the heavy lifting anyway, lol.

 

The diversity amongst the leadership adds to the storyline in my opinion. Of course none of the rulers are perfect. They aren't supposed to be.

[roikka]

 

There is good on both sides, just like there is bad.

Actually, no. Ulfric Stormcloack is an idiot with the diplomatic, political and strategic sense of his average follower. His only saving grace is the lack of blatant racism typical to stormcloacks.

 

The Great War started as a Curb-Stomp Battle where the Empire and all of it's provinces got their asses handed to themselves, but later on got their act together, and began to beat the Aldmeri Dominion, forcing them to retreat. At this point the Empire is badly ravaged, but the Summerset Isles are intact. They need peace. The result is the White-Gold concordat, a nearly pyrrhic victory for the empire. In other words, when Empire realizes that prolonged fighting in the enemy's home turf will be suicidal, it forms a peace treaty.

 

And since they are a race of idiots, the Nords would have preferred such defeat and demise over victory and, most importantly, survival.

 

They hate elves for the Grat War, and for their history. They want to invade Summerset Isles and get rid of the Thalmor, fair enough. But their plan of doing this is to cut a bloody swath across Skyrim, thus making enemy of the Empire, rebuild, and then attack Summerset Isles. And because they think they are so hardcore, they give the Aldmeri Dominion a head start of 30 years in rebuilding.

 

Do I have to count the ways in which this is stupid?

 

1) Civil Wars are almost never peaceful affairs, even as far as wars in general are concerned.

The only form of warfare in the real world containing more civilian casualities and possibly also more collaterial damage is an outright genocide or a strategic-scale nuclear bombing. Rebuilding after civil wars tends to take a while, and still leave the country divided, and the last thing you need during an invasion (yours or enemy's) is a rebellion against you.

 

2) The enemy of my enemy is not my enemy, he's my bloody friend.

No matter how ragged the empire is ran, it's still the best hope the Nords have for defeating the Dominion. After all, the nords don't hate the Empire, they hate the Aldmeri Dominion. The same Aldmeri Dominion that already wreaked some serious havoc against a relatively united empire, so of course Skyrim has good chances against them after a quarter of a century and a Civil War afterwards. Not.

 

3) Who says the elves will wait?

Their homes in the Isles were left intact, and so was Elsweyr and Vallenwood, both controlled by them. And that was 30 years ago. They have had plenty of time to rebuild and rearm themselves. Granted, their standing in Skyrim does weaken when the Civil War ends, but that still doesn't mean Skyrim is by any means ready to take their invasion when it comes. If Skyrim becomes a sovering nation the Empire might try to retake it with the excuse of defending it's former province against the invasion from Aldmeri Dominion, but since stormcloacks just caused them some heavy casualities, they might not have the forces to do so. Even if Skyrim remains as a part of the empire, it's forces have suffered heavy losses due the civil war (unles Season Unending went well) and it still has a lot of unrest in it's hands. And I'm not talking about forsworn.

 

4)There is an ethnic cleansing in the air.

While Ulfric personally might not have issues with dunmer, a lot of nords do, and that is more than likely to errupt as ethnic violence, adding resistances by ethnic minorities to the problems Skyrim already has.

 

5)Talos and associated political blunders.

And the cassus belli for this all is a local tradition that despite supression is still alive and well, to which the empire mostly turned a blind eye to until certain somebody began to make noise of it, and propably is the first thing the empire is going to restore the first chance they get. The ban of which was an obvious provocation to get Skyrim to revolt, making it the most obvious religious excuse ever. And that is saying something. Another excuse is that since it won, the empire is too weak to protect its provinces. So of course the best way to fix this is to pit an entire province against itself, and then fight indepently against pretty much everybody.

 

And Ulfric, unlike your average stormcloack, should know most of this. He fought in the Great War and saw the havoc it caused. He saw the the reachmen conquer Markarth the first chance they got. He is aware of the problem known as the Gray Quarter.

 

But is he concentrating on these real problems. Oh no. Rather, he is mad because the empire would not jeopardize the terms of the treaty that propably saved all of them just because Ulfric demands it.

 

Also, Ulfric preaching about Old Ways is complicated. Those ways were effective during the days of Ysgramor, but a lot has happened since them. Tiber Septim among other things. Not all nords respect them, and didn't necessarily respect them when Ysgramor was still alive.

[fifteenspades]

#4 is wrong. Ulfric is indeed quite racist if you just talk to people at Windhelm you would figure that out. Just because he isn't openly racist doesn't make him any less Racist.

#1 Also wrong, the Middle east war that's been taking place for like 11+ years now has more Civilian Casualties then any of the sides that are actually fighting. China Vs Japan idk if i want to get into that war because well... still really deep seeded hatred from that, each side accusing the other of horrendous things. But again more Civilian Casualties then military.

 

the Cold War was a Peaceful war. "it wasn't a real war" it was a war of attrition and tactics but, still a war.

 

#2 Agreed

#3 Agreed

#5 The Talos ban was a political move but the elves also had personal reasons for banning it

 

As has been said before over and over, it's not that Ulfric is concentrating on real problems as you say, he's just a puppet being controlled by the Thalmor unknowingly. He was a puppet back in the Great war and he's still a puppet now. Nothing changes, and he most likely doesn't care about Skyrim, just really really really hates those elves.

[Lachdonin]

he most likely doesn't care about Skyrim

 

I wouldn't go that far. I'm sure Ulfric loves Skyrim (but not Loves, because then we'd have bigger fish to fry) but he's blinded by layers of Thalmor deception, conditioning and programming, not to mention his own traditions and ego, which prevent him from actually seeing what's BEST for Skyrim.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Lachdonin

[fraquar]

Did the Imperials have any victories in the Great War other than the Battle of Red Ring? For anyone to suggest the Imperials "got their act together and began to beat the AD back into retreat" is ludicrous. In fact, they essentially surrendered to the very terms that were getting shoved down their throat which started the war - immediately after said victory.