Kraeten Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) I can't stand the imperials and just run them through when they try to rob me on the road Those weren't real Imperial soldiers....those were bandits. Next time that happens to you, look around the imposters and you'll find the real Imperial soldiers they'd murdered and looted. Or, if you're already a member of the Legion you can call their bluff which will cause them to abandon their act. Edited August 8, 2012 by Kraeten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonslayer2k12 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 DOH! Well it is a good thing that I beat them all lol. They really had me convinced that someone was murdered around there somewhere and a dead naked body was some person they found lol. I was south of riften at the time this first happened to me. Also after becoming guild master of the thieves guild ceremony and all I decide to go to that farm far south of the town at the bottom of the grey beards temple stairs and while doing a minor side quest of finding 10 of this and 20 of that for some lizard lady I get a visit from the local thief telling me to give him all my money! Oh man why didn't he know did he not get the memo? So he fought me and I beat him too and took ALL his stuff even if I didn't need it lol.Left him there naked for being the FNG and not getting the memo. Those bandits are really sneaky gonna have to go looking for more of them trying to fool me as sort of a quest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBryan18 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Perhaps it was disrespectful, but that still doesn't answer if it was allowed. There's no maybe about it, it was disrespectful. Which isn't something to shrug off, when the duel itself was only valid due to the weight it carried as an old Nordic tradition. If we stick with what's legal, then Ulfric is guilty of murder as the Empire of course doesn't allow its most influential representatives to be challenged to single combat. Maybe the Imperials laws don't allow it, but why exactly should the Empire rule over Skyrim? That answer could go on for hours, but Ulfric has rebelled against the Empire and followed the laws of the Nords. Maybe he faught dirty, but obviously people do what they must in a fight to the death and his actions did not conflict with the tradition. Unless you can give me some book that shows that magic is not allowed in a traditional fight, you have no case, because the Nords are obviously not following Imperial law anymore. Also, are you trying to tell me the voice was disrespectful just because the Greybeards said so? I'm not buying it. Just because the Greybeards hold certain ideals, doesn't mean that those ideals rewrite Nord tradition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Maybe the Imperials laws don't allow it, but why exactly should the Empire rule over Skyrim? The Empire should rule over Skyrim, because even in this sorry age it still represents the best chance of a united mankind. Destroying the old order in favor of just "hoping" something better comes along is utterly irresponsible. Not to mention immoral, as the old order the Stormcloaks are railing against is filled with not just men and women who would happily take the fight to the Dominon once more, but also their own countrymen. Ulfric has rebelled against the Empire and followed the laws of the Nords. He follows the traditions of the Nords when it's convenient. When the Moot was gridlocked over the succession, he threw a tantrum. He cursed the Moot, and the Jarls. When following the Grey Beards teachings meant staying out of the war, he abandoned his mentors and their teachings to chase after glory. Maybe he fought dirty, but obviously people do what they must in a fight to the death Right. A mere boy who has never experienced real combat like Ulfric certainly has, requires the Thu'um to defeat. Pardon me if I'm not convinced. and his actions did not conflict with the tradition. When your platform is safeguarding a culture, it isn't encouraging to show you're willing to trample over it to get what you really want. Unless you can give me some book that shows that magic is not allowed in a traditional fight, you have no case, because the Nords are obviously not following Imperial law anymore. I have no case? Let's do a little recap just in case you're short of memory. Ulfric betrayed Nordic tradition when he used a holy practice, the Thu'um, to murder his High King. So, the traditional argument illustrates Ulfric is a hypocrite and an oath-breaker. Legally, Ulfric again shows his true colors as he had no lawful right to challenge his King. Just because the Greybeards hold certain ideals, doesn't mean that those ideals rewrite Nord tradition. Of course the tradition changed. When Jurgen Windcaller founded the Greybeards he single-handedly defeated the mightiest wielders of the Thu'um. Those same mighty Tongues then bent the knee and became his disciples. He didn't just prove himself to be strongest, but he got everyone else to recognize the legitimacy of The Way of The Voice. From that moment on, the Thu'um was no longer simply a tool for would-be conquerors and The Way of The Voice rose to be THE dominant philosophy where the Thu'um and its application was concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBryan18 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 OK, too many quotes for me. I don't think the Greybeards have enough influence to change tradition. If anyone, it would be the high king, the jarls, and the moot who define what the tradition is. Just because the Greybeards sit on top of a moutain with a dragon doesn't mean they are in command. The high king agreed to the combat, so it was not murder, and as far as the Thu'um being against tradition, it sound like you just made that up. Perhaps people in Skyrim agree with the Greybeards, but again, it is the nobility who make the laws... not some peasant trash who are force fed propaganda by invaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) I don't think the Greybeards have enough influence to change tradition. Irrelevant. They do have such influence, and they did do just that. They are now the only ones left in Skyrim who know how to wield the Thu'um. There is no alternate, contrary opinion. They won. Just because the Greybeards sit on top of a moutain with a dragon doesn't mean they are in command The Grey Beards command respect across all of Skyrim, and that includes the Jarls. The high king agreed to the combat Under duress. Had he refused, his honor would have been stained and his claim to the Throne would have been weakened. And we should all know how much Nords love their honor. Well, except for Ulfric. and as far as the Thu'um being against tradition, it sound like you just made that up. I didn't, actually. Talk to the Greybeards, walk the seven thousand steps and read the stone tablets. It's there. For an easy way to read all the tablets, there's this link. http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/High_Hrothgar Edited August 8, 2012 by Kraeten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBryan18 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 "They are now the only ones left in Skyrim who know how to wield the Thu'um." Wrong. Ulfric also knows it, he's a Jarl, and he has an army to back him up. I think Ulfric's tradition is what stands. What's strange about your theory is that the Greybeards never tell the Dragonborn that he is not allowed to use his voice during combat... So what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) Wrong. Ulfric also knows itBecause the Grey Beards taught him.....I think Ulfric's tradition is what stands.Ulfric has made no tradition. He's an upstart usurper, and if he dies it will just reinforce the Grey Beard history. Jurgen Windcaller was once a proud Nord conqueror, similar to Ulfric, until his blasphemous misuse of the Thu'um led to his defeat. What's strange about your theory is that the Greybeards never tell the Dragonborn that he is not allowed to use his voice during combat...So what happened?The dragonborn is an exception to all the rules, by virtue that his very existence/inborn ability is a gift from the Gods. Edited August 8, 2012 by Kraeten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBryan18 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 You do a pretty good job at twisting the story in your favor... You'd make a good priest, so I'll disagree and end it at that. I could probably figure out how you are wrong, but this is boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraeten Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 You do a pretty good job at twisting the story in your favor By all means, show me how I twisted the story....how I'm distorting the facts. Perhaps in the attempt, you will better acquaint yourself with the lore. You'd make a good priest, so I'll disagree and end it at that. I could probably figure out how you are wrong, but this is boring. I sorely doubt that. Me and faith never got along very well. If you should discover how I am wrong though, do please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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