Anyone else disappointed with the Stormcloak questline?

[SFBryan18]

OK, you want to act like you proved something...

 

Then show me where it says the Dragonborn is an exception to all the rules.

 

It sounds like you just made that up just like the Greybeard tradition.

 

I'm calling BS, so facts or gtfo.

 

I'm just bored with this topic. You didn't prove anything so why should I have to disprove something that doesn't exist?

 

I mean, I could easily make up a story and feed it to you and call it fact...

 

Where is the proof?

 

Ulfric isn't allowed to use his voice, but the Dragonborn is a exception to all the rules? Where'd you get that info?

 

From the Greybeards? Again, why exactly do they write the rules?

 

Next time someone says they are done, please just end it instead of acting like you did something... You didn't.

[Kraeten]

OK, you want to act like you proved something...

 

Then show me where it says the Dragonborn is an exception to all the rules.

 

Ok dokey.

 

<Player>

But I don't follow your philosophy. Why help me learn the Voice?

<Arngeir>

The Dragonborn is an exception to all the rules - the Dragon Blood itself is a gift of the gods.

If we accept one gift, how can we deny the other? As Dragonborn, you have received the ability to Shout directly from Akatosh.

We therefore seek to guide you on the proper use of your gift, which transcends the restrictions which bind other mortals.

 

http://www.skyrimwiki.com/Arngeir

 

Again, why exactly do they write the rules?

Because they are the absolute masters where the Voice is concerned, and no one in Skyrim has disputed this over the many centuries they have meditated atop the Throat of the World.

 

Next time someone says they are done, please just end it instead of acting like you did something.

I adore the exchange of advice, it can be such fun. Here's a piece in exchange, when issuing a challenge leave yourself room to take a dignified fall.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Kraeten

[SFBryan18]

OK, you want to act like you proved something...

 

Then show me where it says the Dragonborn is an exception to all the rules.

 

Ok dokey.

 

<Player>

But I don't follow your philosophy. Why help me learn the Voice?

<Arngeir>

The Dragonborn is an exception to all the rules - the Dragon Blood itself is a gift of the gods.

If we accept one gift, how can we deny the other? As Dragonborn, you have received the ability to Shout directly from Akatosh.

We therefore seek to guide you on the proper use of your gift, which transcends the restrictions which bind other mortals.

 

http://www.skyrimwiki.com/Arngeir

 

Again, why exactly do they write the rules?

 

Because they are the absolute masters where the Voice is concerned, and no one in Skyrim has disputed this over the many centuries they have meditated atop the Throat of the World.

 

Obviously, Ulfric has disputed this, and I'll side with the man who doesn't turn his back on Talos. The Greybeards have done nothing about the ban of Talos, so their rules mean about as much as the high kings, and the Empires.

 

Because Talos is the real tradition, and siding with the force that fight to keep him banned, or in the Greybeards case, simply ignoring the ban is the real insult to tradition.

 

Ulfric obviously doesn't care about the Greybeards rules, and why should he care about anyone who has not helped bring back Talos? He shouldn't. The Greybeards are the disgrace, not Ulfric.

 

The high king agreed to fair combat... This is fact.

 

Ulfric's use of the voice... You're speculating that the Greybeards make the rules. Maybe if they helped bring Talos back they could have that right, but they've done nothing so their rules mean nothing, because the tradition of Talos is much more important than the tradition of the Greybeards. Otherwise, people would be worshiping them instead.

[Kraeten]

Obviously, Ulfric has disputed this

 

Disputed their dominance? Certainly not. In fact, even despite his falling out he still respects them.

 

<Ulfric>

Yes. They chose me when I was just a lad. It was a great honor, of course. I was to become a Greybeard myself.

 

I spent almost 10 years at High Hrothgar, learning the Way of the Voice. Then the Great War came ... I couldn't stand missing it.

 

I often think about High Hrothgar. It's very ... disconnected from the troubles down here. But that's why I couldn't stay, and why I couldn't go back. I suppose the Greybeards care about Skyrim's troubles, in their way, but I needed to do something about it. I'm sure Arngeir would call it one of my failings.

 

Because Talos is the real tradition, and siding with the force that fight to keep him banned is what's really a disgrace, not the Thu'um.

 

Yes...Talos..AKA TIBER SEPTIM...the man who founded the Empire. His greatest accomplishment, arguably. An Empire that once united all of Tamriel. The same Empire that would be effectively destroyed if the Stormcloaks win. Such respect for Talos.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Kraeten

[SFBryan18]

Oh please, you say the Empire founded by Talos, yet they allow the ban of him.

 

This is such a hypocrisy because the Empire that Talos made would not turn their back on him. His Empire is already dead and those who think that it still exists are in denial.

 

In fact, Talos was a Nord from Skyrim, so from the Stormcloaks point of view, they are the ones saving the Empire. The Empire from Skyrim.

 

Your imposter Empire is nothing more than a puppet of the Thalmor with the name "Empire". The real Empire died when the Thalmor took over the capital and forced the treaty.

 

Also, that quote by Ulfric says nothing about his loyalty to the Greybeards. All it says is that he spent time there and that he thinks about it.

 

In fact, this line:

 

"It's very ... disconnected from the troubles down here. But that's why I couldn't stay, and why I couldn't go back. I suppose the Greybeards care about Skyrim's troubles, in their way, but I needed to do something about it. I'm sure Arngeir would call it one of my failings."

 

Actually shows that he doesn't agree with them at all.

[Kraeten]

Oh please, you say the Empire founded by Talos, yet they allow the ban of him.

 

They banned his veneration as a God. They didn't demand his name be erased from history, and his worship will no doubt be restored once the threat of the Aldmeri Dominion has been thoroughly extinguished.

 

This is such a hypocrisy because the Empire that Talos made would not turn their back on him.

 

Yet it did just that, when his descendents were no more. So what then? Do we abandon Tiber Septim's ambition of a united Tamriel just so we can keep clinging to the lifeless stone of his statues and shrines? Could there be a greater betrayal? Doubtful.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Kraeten

[SFBryan18]

Talos is a God. This is a fact proven during the Devine Crusader quests in Oblivion. To make him any less is unacceptable, and his status as a God is much more important than his Empire, which has already been defeated.

 

Maybe the Stormcloaks won't be able to conquer the Thalmor, but they don't really have to. All they have to do is defend their country, and they are. The Thalmor are weak from war just like the Empire, so Skyrim will gain their freedom and make Ulfric high king because of tradition.

 

The Empire can go back to Cyrodil and fight their war with the Thalmor, and maybe Ulfric will help them if they ask nicely. Maybe Ulfric will eventually decide the time is right to rejoin the Empire, but not until they gain control of themselves first and bring back Talos.

 

And if Ulfric becomes a tyrant, the Dragonborn will put him down.

 

The end.

 

At least, this is how it will happen in my game.

[Kraeten]

To make him any less is unacceptable, and his status as a God is much more important than his Empire, which has already been defeated.

 

For over TWENTY YEARS Skyrim suffered your so called unacceptable ban. It's only an issue now, because of Ulfric's stupidity.

 

Maybe the Stormcloaks won't be able to conquer the Thalmor, but they don't really have to. All they have to do is defend their country, and they are.

 

Great idea. Just stick your head in the dirt and ignore what happens around you. Perhaps you've forgotten, but the Aldmeri Dominion nearly destroyed the Empire and that's when everyone was on the same page. So, here's what will happen if we follow your very questionable logic. Instead of facing a united front, the Aldmeri Dominion will instead be able to gobble up Tamriel piece meal and in its own time. Cyrodiil will fall, only this time it won't get back up. Hammerfell will fall afterwords no doubt. And all the while your Stormcloaks are enjoying their precious statues, the Aldmeri Dominion is preparing to bring down onto Skyrim the same level of carnage it brought down upon Cyrodiil. Only Skyrim doesn't possess stone walls around all of its cities or have an abundance of land to grow crops. Yes, the isolationist approach is brilliant.

The Empire can go back to Cyrodil and fight their war with the Thalmor, and maybe Ulfric will help them if they ask nicely.

Of course, of course. It's not like he chose to kill an important General after he'd surrendered. No, Ulfric is too much of a patriot to do such a thing. :rolleyes:

Edited August 8, 2012 by Kraeten

[SFBryan18]

The death of Tullius is unfortunate, but Tullius was determined to kill Ulfric and was too dangerous to leave alive. Ulfric's decision was probably also motivated by the fact that Tullius was going to execute him without a trial, so there was some revenge involved. It's not like Ulfric gets a different fate than Tullius if the Dragonborn help the Imperials.

 

Your view on how each country will fall is pretty unrealistic since a war with each country will make them weaker each time. I doubt they are even strong enough to win another war unless it's against Cyrodil, but not every country takes over the world you know.

 

People automatically assume that a country that sacks an Empire will become the next Empire, but if you look at Rome, none of the countries that sacked them took over Europe. You know why...

 

BECAUSE WAR MAKES MILITARY"S WEAK!

 

The Thalmor beat the Empire. Big deal? They invaded a capital and forced a treaty. So what? That doesn't mean they can do it to every other country who has a fresh army waiting.

 

Your so called "Empire", is actually just a puppet sent to weaken Skyrim for the Thalmor. Unfortunately, good men like Gen. Tullius ended up on the wrong side, but that happens in war.

 

As for your point that it took 20 years to rebel...

 

How many years did it take before an Abraham Lincoln came along to end slavery? Even better, how long before the colonies rebelled against England? I'll bet George Washington was considered pretty evil by the English, just like Ulfric is considered by you Imperial lovers.

[Kraeten]

Tullius was determined to kill Ulfric

Until that whole "If I surrender part" at least.

It's not like Ulfric gets a different fate than Tullius if the Dragonborn help the Imperials.

You're presuming Tullius and Ulfric are equals and deserving of the same fate. They're not. One is a law abiding military officer and the other is a treacherous revolutionary.

Your view on how each country will fall is pretty unrealistic since a war with each country will make them weaker each time.

Immediately afterwards, this would be true. But like I said, with the unity broken the Dominion can conquer Tamriel in its own time. Which means taking several years if necessary in between invasions to replenish the army. The Empire was a threat to them because it could muster a larger army. Take away the ability to marshal such a force and they will have little difficulty.

People automatically assume that a country that sacks an Empire will become the next Empire, but if you look at Rome, none of the countries that sacked them took over Europe. You know why...

Maybe because none of those countries were highly organized, united, and driven towards some manifest destiny....like Nazi Germany *cough* I mean the Aldmeri Dominion.

That doesn't mean they can do it to every other country who has a fresh army waiting.

If the Empire that brought the races of men together is gone, and no alliance is made in its absence the Dominion will do that.

Your so called "Empire", is actually just a puppet sent to weaken Skyrim for the Thalmor.

How curious then that the Dominion states in one of their dossiers that an Imperial Victory is to be avoided for if such a victory were achieved it would adversely effect their position in Skyrim.http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thalmor_Dossier:_Ulfric_Stormcloak

 

The very same dossier would make Ulfric out to be the real puppet here, and not the Empire. Hmm...who to believe. The disgruntled nords, or the ugly truth written by one of the Dominion's very own? Hmm...quite the the decision.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Kraeten