Anyone else disappointed with the Stormcloak questline?

[fraquar]

One word keeps me from joining the Imperials; Hammerfell. I'd rather side with Hammerfell than side with the Empire - at least you know Hammerfell isn't gonna bail on you when the fighting gets tough. Edited August 18, 2012 by fraquar

[sajuukkhar9000]

While they might not bail on you the Redguard leadership would continue to fight a stalemated war were the enemy has vastly more resources, and men, then they did.

 

Most likely to the point they would lose.

[RighthandofSithis]

While they might not bail on you the Redguard leadership would continue to fight a stalemated war were the enemy has vastly more resources, and men, then they did.

 

Most likely to the point they would lose.

 

I've said on several occasions, an alliance between Hammerfell and Skyrim is both inevitable, and more damaging to the Thalmor.

[sajuukkhar9000]

An alliance between Hammerfell and The Empire is equally inevitable.

 

The Redguards may be butthurt that The Empire left them go, even if letting them go was the best option in the long run for them, but they are not so idiotic as to not take the opportunity to attack The Thalmor alongside the Empire when The Empire starts the next war.

[RighthandofSithis]

An alliance between Hammerfell and The Empire is equally inevitable.

 

The Redguards may be butthurt that The Empire left them go, even if letting them go was the best option in the long run for them, but they are not so idiotic as to not take the opportunity to attack The Thalmor alongside the Empire when The Empire starts the next war.

 

I known that Hammerfell can ally with the Empire, but that wasn't my point.

 

A Hammerfell-Skyrim pact will be stronger than the Empire (with, or without Hammerfell). The Empire is corrupt, facing pressures both internally and externally, and most likely economically defunct. That is a textbook example of a dead Empire (Rome, Byzantium, Russia, Britain etc etc).

 

If Skyrim were to leave now, it (and High Rock) will not face the disaster of the collapse. It will feel the lack of the Empire in the short term, but it will be much easier to rebuild Skyrim after the Stormcloak revolution, than after the collapse of the Empire.

[sajuukkhar9000]

Yes because an alliance of two nations that hardly produce enough resources between the two to feed themselves would be so much stronger then an alliance with The Empire who controls Cyrod, which contains most of The Empire's resources, and has been planning for an attack on the Aldmeri Dominion since the great war ended?

 

I would love the see Skyrim and Hammerfell even attempt to march on Alinor, they would be destroyed by the Aldmeri sunbirds before reaching its shores.

Edited August 19, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[RighthandofSithis]

Yes because an alliance of two nations that hardly produce enough resources between the two to feed themselves would be so much stronger then an alliance with The Empire who controls Cyrod, which contains most of The Empire's resources, and has been planning for an attack on the Aldmeri Dominion since the great war ended?

 

I would love the see Skyrim and Hammerfell even attempt to march on Alinor, they would be destroyed by the Aldmeri sunbirds before reaching its shores.

 

Not quite so, Skyrim and Hammerfell would be independent, meaning they don't have to try and keep each other alive. And I have stated before, Hammerfell would have recovered its infrastructure after 20 years (my Stalin analogy) and its population (a new generation). Skyrim will be in an easier position, its infrastructure is not effected by the war, and its population doesn't drop significantly, (they are only facing one or two legions, not the entire Imperial or Aldmeri force).

 

In any case, Cyrodiil would be further weaked with Skyrim's collapse, easy pickings. If SKyrim controlls Bruma and Cheydinhal, they have almost complete control of Cyrodiil's norther border, and easy control other most of the Nibenay Basin.

 

And even then, Skyrim isn't completely incapable of fending for itself. Witerun seems to hold a decent agricultural system, and Riften could easily supply a decent amount of food to the rest of Skyrim (with a few plantations)

 

But I digress, how can the Empire sustain three provinces (and even Hammerfell on top of that), in the middle of a war, when it can't even raise the forces to defend itself, or keep order in its own cities? High Rock is probably self sufficient when it comes to food, as stated before, Skyrim can produce food in its southern areas, and it is known that Cyrodil can produce its own food. However, that doesn't help with the fact that the Empire is dying.

 

Do you think that Cyrodiil will be able to sustain itself in the not to distant future? Forget the rest of the provinces, how would it fare itself? It will collapse, and since the Great War, its degeneration has only accelerated. When it does collapse, which it will very soon (depending on many variables as to how soon), it will not be able to feed itself. It will not be able to field any form of defense, and every province that is economically reliant on it (like Skyrim and High Rock) will be dragged down with it. When this happens, the Empire, or Tamriel itself, will not be able to provide a decent defense against the Dominion.

 

As such, I support Skyrim's independence, and her inevitable alliance with Hammerfell, and likely High Rock.

Edited August 19, 2012 by RighthandofSithis

[sajuukkhar9000]

-Where did you get the idea that Hammerfell would have recovered, especially since you used a Stalin analogy and Russia is STILL a piss poor place to live in today?

-Where did you get the idea that the Civil War didn't harm Skyrim's infrastructure?

-Where does it say anywhere that The Empire can't raise the forces to defend itself or keep order in its cities?

 

I also find your theory on a collapsing Empire to be... based more on personal desire then actual fact.

 

With the death of Titus Mede II at the hand of the Dark Brotherhood The Empire is, if anything, set to revitalize itself. Amaund Motierre compares it to the murder of Emperor Pelagius Septim in the temple of the one. Titus Mede II was a man that most people didn't like, because they saw him as bending over to The Thalmor. However people hate The Thalmor just as much, if not more, then they hate Titus Mede, a new emperor could very easily use the anti-Titus Mede II, and the anti-thalmor, sentiment within the population to rally the people against The Thalmor. That was the entire damn point of the Dark Brotherhood questline.

 

Furthermore when dealing with an enemy whose entire goal is to remove mankind from possibility itself so that man can't come back ever splitting your forces from one directed group, The Empire, into a bunch of smaller less cohesive groups, all the provinces, is only helping The Thalmor. All the provinces together failed when The Thalmor attacked last time,you really think a force with less men, less suplpies, and less coordination, is really going to be able to win this time?

 

What happens to The Empire post 2nd Great-War is, if anything, irrelevant. What matters is that humanity remain united in order to fight the greatest threat the world has ever known since..... well ever, since, as far as we know, there isn't some Deus Ex Machina chosen hero like The Dovahkiin, Martin, The Nerevarine, The Agent, to save the day this time.

 

Although, I fully expect Lorkhan/Akatosh to send some god-slaying champion to the help The Empire in the war. He has done it every other time The Empire has faced some hughe threat, and Lorkhan/Akatosh will not let The Empire he founded 3 times to fail so easily.

Edited August 19, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[RighthandofSithis]

-Where did you get the idea that Hammerfell would have recovered, especially since you used a Stalin analogy and Russia is STILL a piss poor place to live in today?

-Where did you get the idea that the Civil War didn't harm Skyrim's infrastructure?

-Where does it say anywhere that The Empire can't raise the forces to defend itself or keep order in its cities?

 

1. Stalin managed to turn Russia into an industrialised nation capable of combating Nazi Germany and becoming a superpower in 5-10 years. Hammerfell has had 20 years now, and it is quite possible that the Crowns have done a very similar thing. And also, in 20 years, the Hammerfell has now got another generation of young, fit and warlike Redguards. And you yourself have said that Hammerfell is a force to be reckoned with.

 

2. The Game. How many villages were destroyed?

 

3. Cicero, in conversation and in his journals, has stated repeatedly that Cyrodiil is ravaged by strife, and that 'nowhere there is safe at present'.

 

And I have no interest in discussing the divine nature of the TES universe.

[sajuukkhar9000]

1. Stalin managed to turn Russia into an industrialised nation capable of combating Nazi Germany and becoming a superpower in 5-10 years. Hammerfell has had 20 years now, and it is quite possible that the Crowns have done a very similar thing. And also, in 20 years, the Hammerfell has now got another generation of young, fit and warlike Redguards. And you yourself have said that Hammerfell is a force to be reckoned with.

 

2. The Game. How many villages were destroyed?

 

3. Cicero, in conversation and in his journals, has stated repeatedly that Cyrodiil is ravaged by strife, and that 'nowhere there is safe at present'.

 

And I have no interest in discussing the divine nature of the TES universe.

1. But nothing at all supports that they have. If anything, history has shown they probably reverted back to a state of some tension between the crowns and the forebears.

 

Also, while Hammerfell may be strong, which I do admit it is, is it strong enough to take on The Aldmeri dominion to its fullest extent? Does it have the power to go beyond the simple stalemate it achieved, with a home field advantage mind you, against The Thalmor? Does it have the power to march on Alinor and burn the AD to the ground? No.

 

 

2. The game also lacks restrooms in many places, the ability to burn down any sort of building with fire magic despite mages burning down places with fire magic in lore, and TONS of other logical things we know happened despite the game not showing them. Inn keepers never sleep in-game, but does that mean it happened in lore? No.

 

What we see in the games themselves are terrible sources of information, because limitations in the engine prevent many things that should happen from happening.

 

 

3. Cicero is also crazy. Furthermore he is tasked with carrying the Nightmother, who even in the most peaceful of times, would not be safe anywhere.

Edited August 19, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000