NEW MOD: Tempered Learning - Learn Spells & Powers.

[Brinemobee]

I love playing as a mage, more so with all these new magic packs out there.

 

But im also heavily into realism and like my games to be really hard.

 

other then the hideous dissapearing weapon syndrome my character has (there is an awesome mod to fix this, but it doesnt work with SKYRE)

 

the one real annoyance i have is how you simply pay 800 gold and suddenly you are a master of an arcane art you have never even used before. there is no trial or error etc.

 

so. i want to develop a system where you litrally 'learn the spell' not 'activate the spell' which is essentially what you do.

 

so here is my idea.

 

Broken down this mod would do this.

 

1. When you activate a spell. Its initial power and level is based upon your skill in the school. your practice with similar spells. your perks. etc. generally though. when you buy a spell, it costs more and is less effective.

 

2. As you use the spell in real situations. it lvls up. gradually getting to its perfect form. decreasing manacost and increasing effectiveness. the time and effort this takes depends upon the spell & your level.

 

3. there is a chance that the spell will a. not happen at all. b. cause a totally unpredictable effect. (usually negative). c. blow up in your face. THe chances of this are defined by your stats and perks.

for example, say you have enough mana to cast a master spell you just bought. but you are only an adept. the chance of it blowing up is very, very high. in this way gaining those perks becomes more meaningfull.

 

4. if not an automatic way. then through a power, or npc. upgrade spells to their original master form.

 

this for me would be great. as it gives a feel of earning all these powerful abilities. and adds yet more danger and interesting aspects into Skyrim. i guess to a degree its kind of how bethesda does its powers. different stages of power that you have to unlock. only to unlock these stages you have to simply use a spell. a spell that may blow up in your face. or fizzle out during combat. so you would have to pick the right time to be experimental. or take a big risk with that expert spell that you have.

 

A couple of physical examples.

 

1. If you try to summon a creature to powerful. it will

 

a, not appear.

b. die very quickly.

c. turn on you and kill you.

d. not summon what you were expecting, but an altered version. like mini one. or a totally weak one.

e. blow up in your face.

f. Work as its supposed to.

 

2. If you try to cast a lightning spell that you dont have the equivelent perk for. you are drastically increasing your chances that it will

 

a. blow up in your face

b. be totally weak and useless.

c. target the wrong person.

d. target yourself.

e. be something totally different.

f. work as intended.

 

3. if you try to bring up a ward you have not practiced with. it will

 

a. not work.

b. start hurting your health/stamina

c. not work and totally drain your mana

d. blow up in your face.

e. be something else

 

etc etc etc

 

now the speed would depend on many factors. like it takes longer to master more powerful spells. but the closer you are to that level of spell the faster it works. you may master a novice spell after 2/3 tries if you are a master. likewise it may take a crazy amount of time to master a master spell if you are a novice.

 

lastly it hought that when you purchase training in skyrim. it would add to a random spell of that level. if your an adept, trained by a master, it would add like 25 percent to an unmastered adept spell that you currently have. if you were trained by an expert. maybe 15/20 percent. etc. trained by an adept. 10/5 percent etc etc. this would feel like you have results of your training. (though naturally it would be more expensive ;)

 

this would be hard to balance. but i think it could really add a fun level of immersion into the game. and your favorite spells would not be because they are totally awesome. but because you had to struggle so hard to make it work.

 

im not a modder. or a scripter. but if someone was willing to help me i will try this. or maybe be the creative force behind anybody who wants to make the mod phyically.

Edited August 17, 2012 by Brinemobee

[Lumenbeing]

Sounds like a great idea. Are you going to build it?

[Brinemobee]

Well, yes and no.

 

i have 3d modelling, animation and, mainly compositing background for film. so im familiar with a lot of the concepts.

 

however i have next to no scripting knowledge, just messed around with java script a little bit. a few expression here and there a little web game made from like 10 lines of code etc. so pretty simple stuff.

 

but yes. im going to try and build this. as im a quick learner and im pretty much dying to make a mod.

 

What i want is to see if its worth making, if people are interested. if there is a bit of demand for it maybe i can get some help from a modder or two to a. help me learn or actually help construct it. im not sure.

 

but i will see where i can get too on my own.

 

i will make it sooner or later, but may not be my first mod if ppl dont want it because i could start simpler.

[Sjogga]

From my experience, you can scratch the automated version. However, it is possible to create a leveling system for spells though it's a lot of work. I'm a bit unsure of the random effects as well. It is possible to create a "spell failed, don't fire"-mechanic, but I don't think you can make other effects happen if the primary failed. Also note that this mod will not affect custom spells.

 

Some of things you need to do:

- Create x new spells for every spell you want to affect, where x is the number of ranks.

- Create a script to store all values inside, such as spell level progression.

- Create a quest to track when the player casts a spell.

 

3D modeling experience will be of little use for a project like this, as it's mainly Creation Kit experience, and Papyrus scripting knowledge. The best way to learn is to look at existing content and learn from that.

 

Good luck!

[Brinemobee]

awesome thanks for the info

 

my thought with the random effect was that could a script be made, that fires an alternate spell?

[Sjogga]

Sadly thats not how it works. I'm briefly gonna explain how it does work (if you open the kit this will make much more sense):

 

- A spell consists of two parts; a Spell Entry, and Magic Effects

- A spell has its delivery type defined, such as if its a ranged spell, or a self cast.

- A spell can only have Magic Effects that matches its Delivery Type. This means that Firebolt cannot increase your armor.

- Each Spell Entry has one or more Magic Effects.

- Magic Effects define what a spell does when it hits something, such as if it deals damage or not.

- Every Magic Effect can have conditions attached to them from the Spell Entry. Firebolt for example has two Magic Effects: The first deals damage. The second is a fear spell, but only works if the player has the Intense Flames perk.

- Each Magic Effect can have its own conditions. The effect for the Intense Flames-fear spell only works if the target is bellow 10% hp.

- The values of the Magic Effects is modified by the Spell Entry

- You can only attach scripts to Magic Effects, and not the Spell Entry itself.

- Scripts are only executed when it the Magic Effect it is attached to hits a valid target

 

With all this in mind, the closest thing you can achieve is a spell that look something like this:

Firebolt (Novice Rank)

Magic Effects:

- 25 Damage : 75% chance

 

However, since you are tracking spell progress with a separate script, that script can execute other effects. So in total, a spell could look like this:

 

- 25 damage 75 %

(Spell tracking script effects):

- Damage self, 25, 30 %

 

This means that sometimes the spell:

- Deals no damage

- Deals 25 damage to your target

- Deals damage to both you and your target.

 

It is impossible to have these effects included, as the primary effect will always fire:

 

b. be totally weak and useless.

c. target the wrong person. (a spell is always launched where the crosshair is aimed)

e. be something totally different.

 

At least this is the theory. There might be some work around I have overseen.

[Brinemobee]

wow thanks for the break down. its easy to see the limitations like this.

 

i have one question though. how does the wabbajack spell get its randomness? could i manipulate a spell to work like the wabbajack. with increased (i guess scripted) chances of certain spell effects to happen? and decreased chances of other things happening?

[Sjogga]

I seem to have overlooked that possibility. The way Wabbajack works is that everything is modified by a script, including damage, random chance, visual effects etc. Still, the script only executes when it hits a target. I guess you could create a similar script to bypass most limitations.

[Brinemobee]

ok ok thats interesting.

 

So could i technically make every spell into a wabbajack.

 

but then create a way of defining the odds of each outcome based on the progression of the spell?

 

so for example:

 

Fireball spell:

25%chance of little/no damage on inpact.

25%Chance of equivalent Damage hitting player.

25%chance of success

5% chance of damage increase.

5% Chance of lightning

1%Chance of instant Kill

1% Chance of instant Death

13% Chance of Failing.

 

say this is the varied outcome of trying to cast a fireball as a novice.

 

for example, say this was the model i was aiming for. (just of the top of my head.)

 

could i take the way the wabbajack is scripted. and have it work on custom probabilities and effects? so i guess all spells would be new spells? not a fire ball, but a wabbajack that has a high chance to

be a fireball?

 

essentially, replace all spells with custom wabbajack script. then when they reach master level, give them the vanilla spell version?

 

i really have no idea how any of this works. im just wanting to make sure what i want to do has even a chance of being successful.

 

thanks for the advice man i really appreaciate it.

Edited August 19, 2012 by Brinemobee

[Sjogga]

What you are trying to do is definitely possible, but the biggest flaw of it is that it wouldn't affect custom spells.