Are there some historical inconsistencies?

[sgman1]

So on a trip to uesp.net, I just felt like reading through a bit of lore and I could've sworn that I encountered a few inconsistencies such as a name or two of cities and ruins that were present in the Skyrim province that were of great historical importance but you don't find them in Skyrim. I don't actually remember the names as I had visited those pages a while ago.

 

How about another example, though? I just happened upon a rough description of the game Shadowkey roaming around on uesp again today and there was something described along the lines of shadow magic and a shadow creature being created because of some war going on during the time period of the game.

 

How about the fact that in Skyrim you encounter Morokei the dragon priest in Labyrinthian but in Arena there are no signs of the hero encountering draugr and Morokei?

 

Just wanted to know why stuff like this shadow magic and the cities and ruins don't exist? Or the fact that the Civil War didn't create another shadow creature? Or how come Morokei didn't mess around with the hero of Arena?

 

A small note, though, I've only been playing since morrowind and my lore isn't that strong nor have I done much research, so I'm just wanting somebody to answer me. I'm not bashing Bethesda or anybody else for what seems to ME as inconsistencies.

[bben46]

This is all imaginary and there is no 'history' Only lore. And that gets changed by Beth from game to game to suit the current game. I think they create the game, then try to link it back to the previous game afterward. The amazing thing is they do make some attempt to tie things together, often without much success. If you try to make sense of some of the inconsistencies between the various games, lore and what gets lost or found between the games it can drive you nuts. Don't try to over-analyze the game, just play and enjoy. :thumbsup:

[sgman1]

Maybe I haven't played too many games with a large world and lore but the way things were going with this series with NPCs making mentions in the fifth game from the second and third games and there being like bazillion books and whatnot pieces of text written for the games and Beth in general trying to tie things in, I just expected to not see something so glaring.

 

Hell I consider myself pretty dense, so when I stumble upon something like this it just makes me wonder a little. Not like I'm going nuts here, though. :biggrin:

[JanusForbeare]

Speaking of historical inaccuracies, Solstheim just kinda appeared off the coast after Morrowind was released. There was an unused line of vanilla dialogue in Oblivion that mentioned the fact: "Wonder why Solstheim wasn't on the old maps... not that anyone should care.".

 

Actually, come to think of it, Vilja used that line. But no vanilla character did, even though it was recorded and available.

 

Here's a composite map of Tamriel made from the smaller, regional maps found in Arena, the first TES game. As you can see, no Solstheim. :P

 

 

http://tamrielchronicles.com/assets/bigtamriel.jpg

 

[Enatiomorph]

Yes, Beth isn't the best at continuity. Plenty of conjecture and conflicting lore.

[Hoamaii]

@ bben46: I respectfully do not agree with you, bben, imaginary worlds gain a lot with consistency and continuity. Think of Terry Pratchett's Discworld, pure imagination, many different storylines and fierce consistency. Same with the Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, or the old game series Myst. There are many, many examples of consistent story universes in literature, movies or video games. What the storytellers call "storyworld's mythology" (I'm a writer for movies and transmedia stories - can't help myself... ;) ). And truthfully, TES has nearly everything it takes to build that... to me, it's kind of frustrating to have come so close to it, and neglected to go all the way. This approach reflects not only in every game, but also in every single quest - being it a side-quest or a main one, great promises when you start, strangely unrewarding or "dead-end"-like when you finish them. Kind of a shame, really, when you think of all the incredibly hard work and fabulous collective imagination they have deployed. Honest, only thing these games would need are great storytellers to bundle it all together. They're already a great success, but I'm pretty sure they could double that with better "historical" consistency as you guys put it.

I nonetheless enjoy the game very much but every now and then I need to fill in the blanks in my imagination... Cheers to all from Paris :0)

[sgman1]

@ bben46: I respectfully do not agree with you, bben, imaginary worlds gain a lot with consistency and continuity. Think of Terry Pratchett's Discworld, pure imagination, many different storylines and fierce consistency. Same with the Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, or the old game series Myst. There are many, many examples of consistent story universes in literature, movies or video games. What the storytellers call "storyworld's mythology" (I'm a writer for movies and transmedia stories - can't help myself... ;) ). And truthfully, TES has nearly everything it takes to build that... to me, it's kind of frustrating to have come so close to it, and neglected to go all the way. This approach reflects not only in every game, but also in every single quest - being it a side-quest or a main one, great promises when you start, strangely unrewarding or "dead-end"-like when you finish them. Kind of a shame, really, when you think of all the incredibly hard work and fabulous collective imagination they have deployed. Honest, only thing these games would need are great storytellers to bundle it all together. They're already a great success, but I'm pretty sure they could double that with better "historical" consistency as you guys put it.

I nonetheless enjoy the game very much but every now and then I need to fill in the blanks in my imagination... Cheers to all from Paris :0)

 

I don't know. I thought it was only with Oblivion that they started effing up. While I do believe that certain basic game mechanics were quite well improved in Oblivion and further in Skyrim, the story and quests just started to tumble down along with a lot of other world details such as not being able to join certain factions when having joined others or actually having one quest affect a bazillion other quests.

 

I don't think the only thing they need is storytellers but also more time (and effectively using that time; seeing as how they had 6 years but didn't exactly wow people...) to actually implement their stories and their mechanics a lot better. I was actually thrilled when I heard about Skyrim making you a special demigod like thing but as it turns out it's just a gimmick. Furthermore, have you looked at the faction storylines, they're even shorter! Like four or five quests! I don't care how interesting the locations are beyond a certain level. If you don't make them longer than 20-30 hours each, I'm not sure can be thrilled.

 

Maybe I'm wrong but I get the feeling that Beth is falling to the age old corruption and greed of the industry. It just hasn't affected them that much that their games are s*** quality with content worth only 4-6 hours and, hey, at least the DLC they release, most of the time, 'feels' like an expansion.

[Psiberzerker]

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Break

[Hoamaii]

@ sgman1: you're right of course, once storylines are consistently devised, it takes a lot of time to implement them in the gameplay and interweaving the many questlines together is a mind-blowing task - but still entirely feasable - Fringe and Lost (among others) author JJ Abrams has demonstrated this many times. The thing is, from my point of view, Bethesda nonetheless had to do this mind-blowing job anyway, hence the many very excusable quests' bugs and conflcts. My experience is a consistent storyworld to begin with provides clear and strong storylines that make this job somewhat easier, not faster but easier, and prevents many goofs.

I don't know if Bethesda is "falling for the age of corruption and greed" as you put it, but it is nonetheless an industry for sure and if they want to keep on devising great games, they absolutely need the money and the time. The thing is precisely that consistent storyworlds help greatly maintain a faithful, ever growing, multi-generational fan base - and that means gaining both money and time. Actually the faction storylines would have been much more rewarding if they were effectively hooked to the main Skyrim storyline, while also hooked to some extent to the related Oblivion factions. Fans (and they are many!) would have felt like Bethesda was personally addressing them, and they love this. Look at how many Oblivion players would like to understand how the hell the Thalmor got to beat the Empire... I believe Dawnguard was an attempt to surf on the vampire trend, which may tend to prove your point. But personally, even though I like "True Blood" and other vampire stories, I don't feel the urge to buy it - too much remote from the main Skyrim theme. I would have bought a Thalmor related DLC though, and they could have nonetheless included vampires in it if it was a matter of following market trends.

Cheers man! :0)

[Hoamaii]

@ Psiberzerker: precisely!.. you have to look for consistency attempts - or inconsistencies - in small details: dialogs, books (which most of don't read) and minor events. When it should all be right in the open!..