JimS61 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 This game needs an update that allows the Dovahkiin the option of confronting Delphine and Esbern and tell them that because of their inability to follow the true oath of the Blades that their services are no longer required and then lets you banish them from Sky Haven Temple.Then as Dovahkiin you could reform the Blades into what they were originally meant to be, followers of the Dragonborn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 The blades oath binds them to killing dragons. the only person not following the oath is The dovahkiin should he refuse to kill Parth. the blades are now what they always were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClonePatrol Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 The blades oath binds them to killing dragons. the only person not following the oath is The dovahkiin should he refuse to kill Parth. the blades are now what they always were. You're confusing The Blades with the Dragonguard (the organization they sprang from). After the dragons had been driven from Tamriel by the Dragonguard and they had found a Dragonborn (Reman Cyrodiil) over time they became The Blades, an organization sworn to protect the Dragonborn Emperors and by extension the Empire. The Dragonguard ceased to be not long after the Dragons were gone, and finding a Dragonborn was the reason the Akaviiri invaders (who the original Dragonguard were a part of) had come to Tamriel. The Blades stopped directly serving the Emperor when Martin Septim died at the end of the fourth era, as the Emperor's who came after him were not Dragonborn and thus illegitimate in the eyes of the Blades. They served the Emperor because he was Dragonborn, not because he was the Emperor. The Dragonborn of Skyrim, as stated in the Dragonborn Prophecy is the last Dragonborn. Without his support the Blades serve no purpose and never will again. The surviving members of the Blades could just try and revive the Dragonguard and just fight dragons, but that'd be exactly what they were doing. They'd be giving up on being Blades to try and revive the long dead organization that the Blades had come from. And they could only halfway do that. They need a Dragonborn to truly kill dragons, otherwise they can only make them sort of... slumber? For them to refuse to serve the Dragonborn is for them to betray their oaths because without him they have nothing. If the Dragonborn says he doesn't want to kill a particular dragon because that dragon hasn't given him a reason to do so (or has given him a good reason not to do so), they should have to respect that. If they're right about the nature of all dragons, then they'll be vindicated eventually and the Dragonborn will be forced to kill said dragon. To refuse to accept that a being that can live until the end of days and seems to have already existed since the dawn of time can learn and change for the better seems incredibly foolish to me. At first they may not have known better, but Paarthurnax seems to have shown they can learn and change. The only reason that they ever give for wanting to kill all dragons is because all dragons had been involved in various atrocities in the ancient past (which from the dragons point of view at that time likely seemed like killing a nest of insects does to you), before a number of them betrayed Alduin for the mortal races without knowing what consequences may befall them for their actions. Even the Daedra say the Dragons were around from the very beginning, and as they were supposedly created by Akatosh (God of Time) this could be quite literal (at least being older than the Daedra and by extension the Aedra). The Blades seem to be unwilling to forgive the Dragons actions no matter how far in the past those actions are, how much the dragons may regret those actions, or how much the dragons do in an attempt atone. If you've ever taken an action towards someone that you later regretted because you didn't understand what you were doing at the time, perhaps as a child, then you should be able to understand what's wrong with this. Forgiveness, compassion, mercy. There are a reason these things are considered virtues. Growing into a better person can be difficult, but it's a chance we all deserve. It's a chance the Blades and the Dragonguard before them refuse to extend (or acknowledge) even to those dragons who had betrayed Alduin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) The Blades only ever protected Reman, and his descendants, because they, as Dragonborn, helped The Blades fight Dragons. A Dragonborn refusing to kill Dragons is a Dragonborn breaking the pact they made with The Dragonguard long ago. A pact of "ill help you fight dragons as long as you protect me and my family". The Blades owe the Dragonborn no service, for the one reason they ever protected the Dragonborn emperors has been taken away by the Dovahkiin's choice of not killing Parth. Also, I would love to see you use that same mercy logic on some high ranking Nazi officer who defected after killing thousands of people. "ohh yeah just because you told us of some Nazi plans means you get off 100% scott free from all those deaths you caused.... ohh wait... no he wouldn't. Edited August 21, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClonePatrol Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) The Blades only ever protected Reman, and his descendants, because they helped the blades fight Dragons. A Dragonborn refusing to kill Dragons is a Dragonborn breaking the pact they made with The Dragonguard long ago. A pact of "you protect me and I will help you hunt dragons" The Dragonborn of TES V can't break a pact that a different Dragonborn made with the Dragonguard long ago. Even in societies where you can make pacts on behalf of your descendants, you can't generally make pacts for the families of other people. There's no indication that the Dragonborn of Skyrim is descended from Reman Cyrodiil or Tiber Septim, and they can be of an entirely different race than those men altogether. The Dragonguard needed Dragonborns, not the other way around. The Blades only formed after the Dragonguard succeeded in killing or driving away all dragons in Tamriel. The Blades served the entire line of Dragonborn Emperors descended from Reman Cyrodiil and after that line died out they sought out another Dragonborn. When they finally located one, Tiber Septim, they guarded and served his entire line until it died out with Martin Septim at the end of the Third Era. The Dragonborn is prophesied by the Elder Scrolls to fight Alduin, not to kill each and every dragon in existence. ---- That whole Nazi thing you added in your edit, that sort of thing did happen. A lot. The best known example being the United States Operation Paperclip, but there are numerous other examples. The Nazi's also weren't immortal beings that existed since the dawn of time that possessed a completely inhuman outlook as a result of existing long before humans were a thing that existed. Edited August 21, 2012 by ClonePatrol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 You are aware that with Alduin's death the Dragons cant come back to life anymore. By killing Alduin the Dovahkiin made his own existence pointless because even though mortals can't take Dragon souls, there's no one around to bring them back. The Blades DON'T need the Dovahkiin for anything, they can rebuild on their own, they can hunt dragons on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy8 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 You are aware that with Alduin's death the Dragons cant come back to life anymore. Alduin brought back the other dragons by a Thu'um. This Thu'um can be learned (like Dragonrend) or reinvented. By killing Alduin the Dovahkiin made his own existence pointless because even though mortals can't take Dragon souls, there's no one around to bring them back. Why? Dovahkiin is a person, and like any other person he is able to choose his own goals. Even after killing Alduin. The Blades DON'T need the Dovahkiin for anything, they can rebuild on their own, they can hunt dragons on their own. Vice versa. That's why I don't know how to answer the initial question. I mean, what's the point of rebuilding the Blades anyway? BTW, in the Third Era they were more an intelligence than anything else. So since I side with the Stormcloaks (almost every time), I see no need to rebuild the Blades anyway, for my characters, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Alduin brought back the other dragons by a Thu'um. This Thu'um can be learned (like Dragonrend) or reinvented.Considering no other Dragon is known to possess that Thu'um, despite them having been alive for ages, it is safe to say the "bring a dragon back to life" Thu'um is something only Alduin had, or could have. If any Dragon could possess it the Dragon War wouldn't make sense. Why? Dovahkiin is a person, and like any other person he is able to choose his own goals. Even after killing Alduin.And yet, the Dovahkiin is longer important as a Dovahkiin, his purpose has been served, as a mortal he can do whatever he wants, as a Dovahkin hes useless. Vice versa. That's why I don't know how to answer the initial question. I mean, what's the point of rebuilding the Blades anyway? BTW, in the Third Era they were more an intelligence than anything else. So since I side with the Stormcloaks (almost every time), I see no need to rebuild the Blades anyway, for my characters, at least.The Blades are expert Dragon killers who know ancient magics that allow people to hunt Dragons with ease. Alduin brought back countless Dragons during the time he was alive, having people go off and kill them independently is a lot less effective then having an order of warrior whose sole job is to hunt dragons, and who have detailed knowledge of dragons, and their weaknesses. Edited August 21, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landy8 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Alduin brought back the other dragons by a Thu'um. This Thu'um can be learned (like Dragonrend) or reinvented.Considering no other Dragon is known to possess that Thu'um, despite them having been alive for ages, it is safe to say the "bring a dragon back to life" Thu'um is something only Alduin had, or could have. If any Dragon could possess it the Dragon War wouldn't make sense. Dovahkiin managed to relearn one long forgotten Thu'um unknown even to Paarthurnax. What was created once can be recovered or recreated. Vice versa. That's why I don't know how to answer the initial question. I mean, what's the point of rebuilding the Blades anyway? BTW, in the Third Era they were more an intelligence than anything else. So since I side with the Stormcloaks (almost every time), I see no need to rebuild the Blades anyway, for my characters, at least.The Blades are expert Dragon killers who know ancient magics that allow people to hunt Dragons with ease. Alduin brought back countless Dragons during the time he was alive, having people go off and kill them independently is a lot less effective then having an order of warrior whose sole job is to hunt dragons, and who have detailed knowledge of dragons, and their weaknesses. That's what I was trying to say. Let the Blades hunt the dragons. That's their way. There's at least one other way - the Way of the Voice. I think it's more effective than the Blades' way. I may be wrong. But I like an idea of peaceful coexistence more than the idea of genocide. So what I was trying to say: let the Blades expel me and kill the dragons. It's their choice. My choice is to leave them to their hatred and to go chat with Paarthurnax. And maybe help him to find some other dragons willing to accept his way (in future). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimS61 Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 The blades oath binds them to killing dragons. the only person not following the oath is The dovahkiin should he refuse to kill Parth. the blades are now what they always were.I don't know where some people come up with the idea that the Blade's Oath is to just kill dragons.THAT'S WHAT THE DRAGONGUARD DID, NOT WHAT THE BLADES ARE SUPPOSED TO DO. Delphine herself said the Blades Oath was to FOLLOW AND SERVE the Dragonborn.That means the Dovahkiin is in charge. HE makes the decissions, not the Blades. If some Blades disagree with it, no problem as long as they carry out his decission..If they can't, they leave the Blades so as far as I'm concerned, Delphine and Esbern left the Blades when they issued an ultimatum to Dovahkiin.Do what we say or we won't follow you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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