Down with the old Blades we need New Blades

[StayFrosty05]

The blades oath binds them to killing dragons.

 

the only person not following the oath is The dovahkiin should he refuse to kill Parth.

 

the blades are now what they always were.

I don't know where some people come up with the idea that the Blade's Oath is to just kill dragons.

THAT'S WHAT THE DRAGONGUARD DID, NOT WHAT THE BLADES ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

 

Delphine herself said the Blades Oath was to FOLLOW AND SERVE the Dragonborn.

That means the Dovahkiin is in charge. HE makes the decissions, not the Blades.

 

If some Blades disagree with it, no problem as long as they carry out his decission..

If they can't, they leave the Blades so as far as I'm concerned, Delphine and Esbern left the Blades when they issued an ultimatum to Dovahkiin.

Do what we say or we won't follow you.

 

Now if only the Dragonborn could also re-claim what is rightfully his...Sky Haven Temple....sorry, for the first time I have just found out if he takes anything in the temple it's considered theft....I'm what the...!!... :blink: ....But yes, the Blades...well more to the point Delphine and to a lesser extent Esbern appear to be quite confused about their Oath's...it seems to be something of a pick and choose mentality as it suits them, breaking one oath to apparently fulfill another....As far as I am aware it is 'To follow and serve' the Dragonborn...and their doing a pretty lousy job....it is made quite clear Dragonborn is meant to be in charge....Delphine has a lot of trouble accepting that fact, she is not Blades material.

[sajuukkhar9000]

I don't know where some people come up with the idea that the Blade's Oath is to just kill dragons.

THAT'S WHAT THE DRAGONGUARD DID, NOT WHAT THE BLADES ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

 

Delphine herself said the Blades Oath was to FOLLOW AND SERVE the Dragonborn.

That means the Dovahkiin is in charge. HE makes the decissions, not the Blades.

 

If some Blades disagree with it, no problem as long as they carry out his decission..

If they can't, they leave the Blades so as far as I'm concerned, Delphine and Esbern left the Blades when they issued an ultimatum to Dovahkiin.

Do what we say or we won't follow you.

The Blades duty is to follow the Dragonborn yes.... in helping him fulfill his divine duty... which is to slay dragons.

 

With the Dragonborn's denial of his divine task, the blades are not bound to serve him.

[StayFrosty05]

I don't know where some people come up with the idea that the Blade's Oath is to just kill dragons.

THAT'S WHAT THE DRAGONGUARD DID, NOT WHAT THE BLADES ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

 

Delphine herself said the Blades Oath was to FOLLOW AND SERVE the Dragonborn.

That means the Dovahkiin is in charge. HE makes the decissions, not the Blades.

 

If some Blades disagree with it, no problem as long as they carry out his decission..

If they can't, they leave the Blades so as far as I'm concerned, Delphine and Esbern left the Blades when they issued an ultimatum to Dovahkiin.

Do what we say or we won't follow you.

The Blades duty is to follow the Dragonborn yes.... in helping him fulfill his divine duty... which is to slay dragons.

 

With the Dragonborn's denial of his divine task, the blades are not bound to serve him.

 

His divine duty was to slay the World Eater...Alduin....that is one Dragon...not all.

[JimS61]

I don't know where some people come up with the idea that the Blade's Oath is to just kill dragons.

THAT'S WHAT THE DRAGONGUARD DID, NOT WHAT THE BLADES ARE SUPPOSED TO DO.

 

Delphine herself said the Blades Oath was to FOLLOW AND SERVE the Dragonborn.

That means the Dovahkiin is in charge. HE makes the decissions, not the Blades.

 

If some Blades disagree with it, no problem as long as they carry out his decission..

If they can't, they leave the Blades so as far as I'm concerned, Delphine and Esbern left the Blades when they issued an ultimatum to Dovahkiin.

Do what we say or we won't follow you.

The Blades duty is to follow the Dragonborn yes.... in helping him fulfill his divine duty... which is to slay dragons.

 

With the Dragonborn's denial of his divine task, the blades are not bound to serve him.

 

Dovahkiin IS NOT bound to kill something just because it has scales and flies.

His devine task is to protect others from dragons but if a certain dragon isn't hostile then no one needs to be protected from it.

"PROTECTING" some one from a non-hostile dragon is just murder.

Edited August 22, 2012 by JimS61

[ClonePatrol]

Also worth pointing out, the Dragonborn didn't absorb Alduin's soul when he killed him in Sovngarde like he did with other dragons. Argeir and Paarthurnax think Alduin can not be permanently killed and will return to fulfill the prophecy of the Elder Scrolls. If that's the case, then if the Dragonborn lives long enough they may be able to fight Alduin again and again to keep the world from ending, which I always considered a pretty good reason for the character to become a vampire (especially since vampires don't need to kill to feed). If he really is the last dragonborn and Alduin can not be killed but only banished, then it's more important for the Blades to keep him alive and in their good graces than any other previous dragonborn.

 

EDIT: I feel I should post the Dragonborn Prophecy here:

 

When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world

When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped

When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles

When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls

When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding

The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.

 

That's all there is to it. Nothing even about fighting Alduin, just the implication that he will. Nothing even to do with killing dragons. The Dragonborn may be the only one who can kill dragons (aside from other dragons) but it's hardly his divinely bestowed duty, more of a divinely granted privilege. He can kill them if he wants to do so, if he feels he should. He's under no obligation to do so.

Edited August 22, 2012 by ClonePatrol

[Moraevik]

Sorry, sajuukkhar, but I think your arguments are logically void. The two facts that we know from in-game knowledge are that the Dragonborn is destined to defeat Alduin and that the Blade's oath is to serve the Dragonborn. If you're reading more into it than this, then you are introducing pure conjecture into your argument, which makes it suspect.

 

1. The Dragonborn fulfills his destiny when he defeats Alduin.

2. Delphine and Esbern broke their oath the instant they demanded an action from the Dragonborn.

 

Those are the only two conclusions that can be logically drawn from the in-game information we have. In thinking that the Dragonborn is destined to slay all dragons is arguing from the specific to the general -- a well-known logical fallacy that automatically invalidates an argument unless additional supportive facts are added to it. The Dragonborn does not serve the Blades. He is under no oath of any kind to take orders from Delphine or Esbern. This, too, should be obvious.

 

When I first did this quest and Delphine and Esbern told me that I had to kill Paarthurnax or they would no longer aid me I was like ... "Say what? OK, you know where the front door is. Parth is better company, anyway."

 

For me the bottom line is simply this. Let the Blades die out with Delphine and Esbern. Historically, they've served the Septim line of Emperors. There won't be any more of those. Their self-rightous, unyielding hatred of dragons puts them in the same category as Forsworn, Nords who think Skyrim is only for them, and the other haters who have lived in many worlds and many times. I didn't care for Delphine from the moment I met her, and I cared less for her after I got to know her. Esbern is just a crazy old guy who happened to be right about some things, but I think his utility in the world has seen its end, too. The Blades are a dying order. Let them die.

 

As for the Dragonborn after the defeat of Alduin, there are still bad dragons in the world that need to either mend their ways or suffer the consequences of their actions. We need Parth for the first and the Dragonborn for the second. Life goes on and changes with time. So do destinies.

 

As for not being able to learn the shout that resurrects dragons, the Dragonborn already knows the words. They are in the dragon's tongue, so they have meaning within the language of the Dovah. The Dragonborn learned Dragonrend merely by witnessing it used (a game-fudge, but it still sets a precedent). He knows the words. He could study them and figure out the shout.

[ClonePatrol]

For me the bottom line is simply this. Let the Blades die out with Delphine and Esbern. Historically, they've served the Septim line of Emperors. There won't be any more of those.

 

Not even that really. Martin Septim and the Septim line died at the end of the Third Era, just over two-hundred years before the events of Skyrim. Delphine and Esbern are both humans and until the events of Skyrim they never would have known or had to serve under a dragonborn in their entire lives, and they'd most certainly have never killed or even seen a dragon themselves either. Their experience at being Blades would be largely limited to their martial training, their having read through books of the Blades lore, and their searching for a Dragonborn. Delphine only came into contact with the Dragonborn because she had taken the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller assuming it to be something the Dragonborn would retrieve for the Greybeards eventually. Something that would have pissed most of the Dragonborn's I've played off immensely, only not killing her because the game didn't allow it.

[StayFrosty05]

For me the bottom line is simply this. Let the Blades die out with Delphine and Esbern. Historically, they've served the Septim line of Emperors. There won't be any more of those.

 

Not even that really. Martin Septim and the Septim line died at the end of the Third Era, just over two-hundred years before the events of Skyrim. Delphine and Esbern are both humans and until the events of Skyrim they never would have known or had to serve under a dragonborn in their entire lives, and they'd most certainly have never killed or even seen a dragon themselves either. Their experience at being Blades would be largely limited to their martial training, their having read through books of the Blades lore, and their searching for a Dragonborn. Delphine only came into contact with the Dragonborn because she had taken the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller assuming it to be something the Dragonborn would retrieve for the Greybeards eventually. Something that would have pissed most of the Dragonborn's I've played off immensely, only not killing her because the game didn't allow it.

 

I hear you....that really irked me....My Dragonborn retrieved the 'Horn' as an already very un-impressed man with Delphine, but held it together long enough for her to do some explaining....game doesn't allow him to draw his sword when she arrogantly assumes she could have killed him the instant he entered the tavern if she didn't like the look of him....that is not a good pitch when your attempting to earn someones ears and trust.... :down: ....and then goes on to tell him that he MUST prove himself to her....a complete stranger who has already done her utmost to p*ss him off....at that stage my Dragonborn told her to go take a long walk off a short jetty and left....Only went back much later in the game to complete the Main Quest because there is no other choice available....I hate that there are no other options.

[ClonePatrol]

 

For me the bottom line is simply this. Let the Blades die out with Delphine and Esbern. Historically, they've served the Septim line of Emperors. There won't be any more of those.

 

Not even that really. Martin Septim and the Septim line died at the end of the Third Era, just over two-hundred years before the events of Skyrim. Delphine and Esbern are both humans and until the events of Skyrim they never would have known or had to serve under a dragonborn in their entire lives, and they'd most certainly have never killed or even seen a dragon themselves either. Their experience at being Blades would be largely limited to their martial training, their having read through books of the Blades lore, and their searching for a Dragonborn. Delphine only came into contact with the Dragonborn because she had taken the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller assuming it to be something the Dragonborn would retrieve for the Greybeards eventually. Something that would have pissed most of the Dragonborn's I've played off immensely, only not killing her because the game didn't allow it.

 

 

I hear you....that really irked me....My Dragonborn retrieved the 'Horn' as an already very un-impressed man with Delphine, but held it together long enough for her to do some explaining....game doesn't allow him to draw his sword when she arrogantly assumes she could have killed him the instant he entered the tavern if she didn't like the look of him....that is not a good pitch when your attempting to earn someones ears and trust.... :down: ....and then goes on to tell him that he MUST prove himself to her....a complete stranger who has already done her utmost to p*ss him off....at that stage my Dragonborn told her to go take a long walk off a short jetty and left....Only went back much later in the game to complete the Main Quest because there is no other choice available....I hate that there are no other options.

 

I had to burst out laughing the first time I got around to doing that quest and she made that comment about how I shouldn't have come there if I didn't trust her and killing my Dovah. At the beginning of the game I'd taken off towards Falkreath and pretty much never gone to Riverwood before except to speak to Hadvar's uncle (which I waited quite a while to do). When I was talking to her I was a vampire wearing a full set of Nightingale Armor and dual-wielding the Mace of Molag Bal (which guards can freak out at the sight of) along with Dawnbreaker, and had arrived at the Inn with Cicero from the Dark Brotherhood and the dog Vigilance after riding in to town on Shadowmere. I think I also had the Spectre of Lucien Lachance summoned, not sure though. I couldn't help but feel it should be pretty obvious that I could take out the entire town if I felt like it, and that if she really doubted that I was Dragonborn the Whiterun Guards outside could probably vouch for me since they were sent there around the same time I killed Mirmulnir and they can comment on it.

Edited August 22, 2012 by ClonePatrol

[StayFrosty05]

 

For me the bottom line is simply this. Let the Blades die out with Delphine and Esbern. Historically, they've served the Septim line of Emperors. There won't be any more of those.

 

Not even that really. Martin Septim and the Septim line died at the end of the Third Era, just over two-hundred years before the events of Skyrim. Delphine and Esbern are both humans and until the events of Skyrim they never would have known or had to serve under a dragonborn in their entire lives, and they'd most certainly have never killed or even seen a dragon themselves either. Their experience at being Blades would be largely limited to their martial training, their having read through books of the Blades lore, and their searching for a Dragonborn. Delphine only came into contact with the Dragonborn because she had taken the Horn of Jurgen Windcaller assuming it to be something the Dragonborn would retrieve for the Greybeards eventually. Something that would have pissed most of the Dragonborn's I've played off immensely, only not killing her because the game didn't allow it.

 

 

I hear you....that really irked me....My Dragonborn retrieved the 'Horn' as an already very un-impressed man with Delphine, but held it together long enough for her to do some explaining....game doesn't allow him to draw his sword when she arrogantly assumes she could have killed him the instant he entered the tavern if she didn't like the look of him....that is not a good pitch when your attempting to earn someones ears and trust.... :down: ....and then goes on to tell him that he MUST prove himself to her....a complete stranger who has already done her utmost to p*ss him off....at that stage my Dragonborn told her to go take a long walk off a short jetty and left....Only went back much later in the game to complete the Main Quest because there is no other choice available....I hate that there are no other options.

 

I had to burst out laughing the first time I got around to doing that quest and she made that comment about how I shouldn't have come there if I didn't trust her and killing my Dovah. At the beginning of the game I'd taken off towards Falkreath and pretty much never gone to Riverwood before except to speak to Hadvar's uncle (which I waited quite a while to do). When I was talking to her I was a vampire wearing a full set of Nightingale Armor and dual-wielding the Mace of Molag Bal (which guards can freak out at the sight of) along with Dawnbreaker, and had arrived at the Inn with Cicero from the Dark Brotherhood and the dog Vigilance after riding in to town on Shadowmere. I think I also had the Spectre of Lucien Lachance summoned, not sure though. I couldn't help but feel it should be pretty obvious that I could take out the entire town if I felt like it, and that if she really doubted that I was Dragonborn the Whiterun Guards outside could probably vouch for me since they were sent there around the same time I killed Mirmulnir and they can comment on it.

 

 

LOL... :laugh: ...I love it....would have liked to have seen that..... :biggrin: .....Delphine certainly has some very delusional tickets on herself.... :D .....Mine wasn't quite as dramatic as yours... :happy: ....I play a Nord with a Height Adjusted Races Mod, so as a Breton she is tiny and I also have my Nord Man console set to Altmer height with max weight slide....suffice to say, his one big man.....she looks absolutely tiny beside him....him bristling with some rather impressive weapons of his own (not Daedric, but impressive none the less) and did I forget to mention his Snowy Sabre Cat companion?.... :P ....And there's this miniscule big mouth woman popping out with that line....My face.... :blink: