Stutter removers & "fingers glitch"

[KiCHo666]

Hello!

Not hoping this to be solved, but just throwing this here.
After turning on mods one by one in hope to find which one is causing "fingers glitch" on a freshly installed game, I discovered it's NVSR or NVTF. Basically, anything that fixes 64Hz bug.

What is "fingers glitch"?

This is:

https://ibb.co/rpZkvW5

https://ibb.co/vsJnRq8

https://ibb.co/42MFkz3

https://ibb.co/MpD42zw

https://ibb.co/64XGhTR

https://ibb.co/dQMNPLh
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=570fLEVWSLY

From my experience, it happens with all weapons when firing them, but the most extreme are ones that can load a single bullet at a time, with worst offender being pump shotguns.

As soon as I disabled NVSR/NVTF the problem went away. I always kept the game capped at 60 fps. Capping game to 30 fps makes the problem appear less frequently.

Of course, I'm sure I'm one of the rare people experiencing it to such extreme degree, because all other people I asked never experienced it and they all use stutter removers.

There you go. Cheers! :smile:

Edited May 13, 2019 by KiCHo666

[dubiousintent]

Ouch! That is a nasty bug, and I would never have guessed the cause. Fortunately it does seem to be rare, as this is the first report I've seen of it in the last four plus years of daily monitoring the forum. (Actually, I have seen it before ... just not under that name. Memory is the first to go.)

 

Tied to the 64Hz fix, huh? Did you attempt the "bAlternate64HertzFix" under "Experimental" in NVSR? Just for clarify, did you try just disabling that single fix or was it necessary to completely disable the entire plugin?

 

I'll be adding this one to the "Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" guide. Thanks for reporting it.

 

-Dubious-

[KiCHo666]

If I set "bManageFPS" to 0 in NVSR.ini, the problem is gone, but then stuttering is back.
I haven't found "bAlternate64HertzFix" anywhere in the ini.
Does it have an older version of NVSR?

[dubiousintent]

Make sure you are only managing your FPS in one location (such as NVSR) and not in multiple (such as the INI file settings as well) at the same time. There are suggestions about this in the "Causes" under the 'Issue - Game in slow motion' entry of the 'Solutions to Performance problems' section of the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" article.

 

Aha. Yes, I am using an older version of NVSR (4-1-32) on my Win7 system. (If it isn't broke, don't "fix" it.) No idea when it got dropped, but probably when Win10 started having problems wit it.

-Dubious-

[KiCHo666]

After playing with NVSR options, here are the results:
Without any VSync and framerate capped via NVSR.ini to 60, the "fingers glitch" is gone, but stuttering is back and screen is tearing due to lack of VSync.
Except setting max framerate to 60, everything else in NVSR.ini is at default.

[dubiousintent]

Sounds like this goes back to "multiple settings" for V-sync, with the possibility of the video card as well. V-sync is an area with a lot of misunderstandings surrounding it. Suggest you read the article explaining it linked in the 'Issue - Vsync aka V-Sync ON or OFF' entry under the 'Solutions to Performance problems' section of the wiki "Fallout NV Mod Conflict Troubleshooting" article.

 

The "default" settings for NVSR leave pretty much everything vanilla. What really bothers me is that your problem carries over when using NVTF instead. That strongly suggests either both are using the same mechanism for the 64Hz fix, or it's something else conflicting (such as V-sync).

 

Think it's time to ask for the specifics on your version of Windows, video card, and monitor combination. A quick search on "64Hz video problem" turned up a number of reports over the years of Win10 updates causing displays stuck on "incorrect refresh rates" on various systems and drivers often needing to be updated. A more specific search may turn up further details.

 

-Dubious-

[KiCHo666]

I had vSync disabled everywhere, from nvidia control panel to NV ini files. Basically, fps was unlocked, but I capped it with NVSR, but that resulted in screen tearing and microstuttering was back.
In order to have my game microstutter-free, I have to use Vsync + NVSR/NVTF. Then the game is butter-smooth, but fingers glitch happens.

I can choose between having a microstutter and no fingers glitch or having no microstutter and fingers glitching out.

NVTF does use a part of NVSR code responsible for fixing 64Hz bug, so it's not surprising it causes same glitching as NVSR.

I'm on Windows 7 64 bit, i5 4690, GTX 970, 8 GB DDR3, I use dual 1080p 60Hz Philips monitors (Don't know exact numbers on model)

[dubiousintent]

Found some interesting things while researching this problem for the GTX970. I make no representations as to how accurate they are, but offer them at face value.

* Are you playing in "Full Screen" or "Windowed Mode"? Have you tried any of the various "Borderless Window" or "Fake Fullscreen Window" mods (such as "OneTweak for NVSE" by virusek)? This reportedly can prevent some of those issues. (I use "OneTweak" and have no display problems on Win7 at 1920x1080@60Hz with dual monitors and a GTX760.)

* Found the following explanation for the bug (both 64Hz and the "fingers glitch") in this thread. The author appears to have done more than causual digging into the matter [summarized by me for conciseness] as:

Bethesda's post-Morrowind games implemented GetTickCount() functions in the renderer, which causes a microstutter of sorts. The bug was fixed by the Stutter Remover mods. The reason why it occurs, is because the renderer uses GetTickCount instead of a short TimeGetTime equation. That's all it is; GetTickCount returns a variable frequency that jumps between 13-16ms, whereas TimeGetTime will consistently return a frequency of 1ms.

Funnily enough, Fallout 3 and New Vegas have a bug when using iFPSClamp [in the game INI file], causing the hands of NPCs and the player to either become massive, or collapse into themselves. [This sounds like the "fingers glitch".] Oblivion and Skyrim had no such bug with iFPSClamp.

* There is a thread concerning this 64Hz bug on the UnrealEngine site indicating it is an engine problem not specific to Bethesda still present in later versions (2015).

* Someone posted that setting the frame limit (in any "FPS limiting" capable tool including ENB) to "59" instead of "60" prevented the problem in Skyrim. [Other posts claimed this disabled V-sync.] Also that "iPresentInterval=1" enables V-sync.

* An alternative solution to a driver update: Grab Powerstrip and follow simple instructions in this GFY.

* Others have reported that "drawing a two-handed weapon" or exiting to the desktop and re-loading the game save file have resolved the "fingers glitch" problem.

 

Hope one of those is of some help.

 

-Dubious-

[KiCHo666]

- I'm playing in windowed mode, but use OneTweak to fake fullscreen. Fullscreen or no, with or without OneTweak, the glitch happens when using NVSR.

- I tried setting iFPSClamp to 60 fps and, sure enough, it had the same effect as using NVSR. Microstuttering is fixed, but finger glitch happens as well. In addition to that, if I understood correctly, game goes into slow motion if framerate goes below 60 fps.

- Setting fps to 59 in NVSR.ini made no difference. Microstuttering is there, but no finger glitch. I can't get smooth framerate any other way except when using VSync.

- Tried that program, but that slider is grayed out, which doesn't surprise me since 60Hz refresh rate is max my monitor can handle.

- I drawn 2 handed weapon multiple times, saved and exited to desktop as well, no dice.

[KiCHo666]

Here's a video of a glitch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpZNevLIQ-s