Should Paarthurnax Live or Die?

[StayFrosty05]

He should be locked up in Dragonsreach.

 

Seriously, why should we be forced to choose between a death sentence and a complete acquittal? Neither of those options are truly just. I say lock him up, and keep him as a trophy in the Jarl's palace. Beats the hell out of having to climb 7000 (okay, 700, but don't tell Todd Howard!) steps to the top of the throat of the world for a five-minute chat.

 

Honestly, I would much rather be dead than locked up like that....that would be the cruelest kind of torture.

[Freya1997]

Because Alduin is supposed to be next to indestructable and Paarthurnax isn't and he knows it so if you can defeat Alduin, Paarth knows he wouldn't stand a chance against you.

Also, many quote Paarthurnax's speech but they forget he said that Alduin (on his own) is a spoiled first born brat and decided to take domination as his birthright.

 

I think the other dragons aren't really that evil. They just follow Alduin because he has access to Sovenguard where he can make himslef indstructable so they're afraid to oppose him. THEY can die in a war, Alduin can't so they're the ones that take all the chances, not him.

 

With Alduin gone they can live their own lives instead of living and dying for him.

 

Once Alduin is gone we'll only hunt the dragons that cause trouble. Those that don't cause trouble we'll leave alone.

Path has waited over 4,000 years for Alduin's return and defeat.

 

You really don't think he could wait another.... like 30... for you to die?

 

It doesn't matter if you can kill him or not...... if your dead you can't do jack.

 

The Dragons play a very very long game, 30 years is nothing to them.

Unless you became immortal, in which case the joke would be on him. No if Paarthy had wanted world domination, he could've easily taken control in the many thousand years that has gone since Alduin was taken out. Not to mention his Way of the Voice wouldn't be so pacifistic either. He wouldn't make a grand declaration to teach it to his fellow dragons this way due to that.

[sajuukkhar9000]

Unless you became immortal, in which case the joke would be on him. No if Paarthy had wanted world domination, he could've easily taken control in the many thousand years that has gone since Alduin was taken out. Not to mention his Way of the Voice wouldn't be so pacifistic either. He wouldn't make a grand declaration to teach it to his fellow dragons this way due to that.

How is Parthy going to dominate the world in those 4,000 years before Alduin returned? He is just one dragon...... I don't think you thought that through.

 

Parthy HAD to wait for Alduin's return, because Alduin is the only being that can raise dragons from the dead. Parth can't take over the world without minions, and so he waited for Alduin to come back, raise all the dragons, and for the Dovahkiin to kill Alduin, so that Parth's Thu'um would become the one the other dragons listened to...... you know.... they very thing that happened at the end of the game.

 

The way of the voice isn't his though..... it was an invention of Jurgen Windcaller, and anyways Parth could very easily be lying, just biding his time till the one being that could easily stop him, the dovahkiin, is dead.

Edited August 23, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[JimS61]

Because Alduin is supposed to be next to indestructable and Paarthurnax isn't and he knows it so if you can defeat Alduin, Paarth knows he wouldn't stand a chance against you.

Also, many quote Paarthurnax's speech but they forget he said that Alduin (on his own) is a spoiled first born brat and decided to take domination as his birthright.

 

I think the other dragons aren't really that evil. They just follow Alduin because he has access to Sovenguard where he can make himslef indstructable so they're afraid to oppose him. THEY can die in a war, Alduin can't so they're the ones that take all the chances, not him.

 

With Alduin gone they can live their own lives instead of living and dying for him.

 

Once Alduin is gone we'll only hunt the dragons that cause trouble. Those that don't cause trouble we'll leave alone.

Path has waited over 4,000 years for Alduin's return and defeat.

 

You really don't think he could wait another.... like 30... for you to die?

 

It doesn't matter if you can kill him or not...... if your dead you can't do jack.

 

The Dragons play a very very long game, 30 years is nothing to them.

Exactly. He's lived in isolation for thousands of years which is like a prison sentence (a rather unusually long one) and IF he was going to do something he would have done so BEFORE a dragonborn was born.

[sajuukkhar9000]

Exactly. He's lived in isolation for thousands of years which is like a prison sentence (a rather unusually long one) and IF he was going to do something he would have done so BEFORE a dragonborn was born.

As I pointed out to Freya1997, how is Parth supposed to do anything when he is the only dragon left alive? He need minions and other dragons to help him out, and he cant bring them back to life himself.

 

Seriously, it's like.... no one is actually thinking what they are saying through.

[BrettM]

How do you know that Paarthurnax can't resurrect other dragons? What proof is there that only Alduin has this power? As for being the only dragon left alive (which is not strictly true), that wasn't always the case.

 

Between the end of the Dragon War and the arrival of the genocidal Akaviri there was a very long period during which there were still plenty of dragons around. Paarthurnax himself tells us so. There doesn't appear to have been any organized conflict between men and dragons during this period, though there were incidents such as Olaf's capture of Numinex. This seems to be confirmed by Durnehviir's story of dragons fighting among each other for small slices of territory, which must have been during this period since it seems unlikely that Alduin would have allowed it while he was in charge and equally unlikely that territorial disputes would have been a priority after the Akaviri became a threat. Paarth had a pretty good window of opportunity there if he really wanted to try to take over the world.

 

But, you may say, Paarth knew it was really wiser to wait, knowing that Alduin would return but would be defeated for good the next time. However, this plan seems pretty risky. After all that waiting, what guarantee would Paarth have that he wouldn't end up with Alduin's teeth in his neck before it was all over? What guarantee would Paarth have that the dragonborn who defeated Alduin wouldn't set out on a new dragon genocide, turning on Paarth and spending the rest of his life putting as many dragons as possible down beyond any possibility of resurrection? Furthermore, even if the dragonborn was deceived into considering Paarth "safe" and died never knowing he'd been duped, why would the other dragons even consider following one who had already betrayed them once? Would YOU follow someone who'd already gotten you killed once by taking the other side in a war and teaching your enemy how to use your weapons? And, if they did follow him, what guarantee would Paarth have that Akatosh wouldn't simply send a new dragonborn to stop the new dragon tyranny?

 

Immortal or not, Paarth would have to be pretty stupid to put 4,000 years into a plan with so many things going against it.

Edited August 23, 2012 by BrettM

[sajuukkhar9000]

How do you know that Paarthurnax can't resurrect other dragons? What proof is there that only Alduin has this power? As for being the only dragon left alive (which is not strictly true), that wasn't always the case.

If other dragons had the power, none have ever used it, or ever shown the ability to use it. When there is no evidence that something exists, you cannot claim it does.

 

As it stands now there is no evidence at all that any Dragon, besides Alduin, has the power to bring other dragons back to life. If other dragons did have this power I would ask why didn't they bring back other Dragons and use their resurrection as a tool to bind the dragons into their servitude.

 

Also, if other Dragons had their power, it would have made Alduin's banishment at the throat of the world during the Dragon War meaningless, as other Dragons would just be able to bring back other Dragons.

Between the end of the Dragon War and the arrival of the genocidal Akaviri there was a very long period during which there were still plenty of dragons around. Paarthurnax himself tells us so. There doesn't appear to have been any organized conflict between men and dragons during this period, though there were incidents such as Olaf's capture of Numinex. This seems to be confirmed by Durnehviir's story of dragons fighting among each other for small slices of territory, which must have been during this period since it seems unlikely that Alduin would have allowed it while he was in charge and equally unlikely that territorial disputes would have been a priority after the Akaviri became a threat. Paarth had a pretty good window of opportunity there if he really wanted to try to take over the world.

So long as all Dragons and men submit to Alduin being their leader I see no reason for Alduin to care if they had fought amongst each other for small slices of land, so long as they did Alduin's bidding when he commanded them.

 

Furthermore, most of the Dragons were killed in the Dragon-War, Parth has a much better chance at taking over the world when Alduin brings back ALL the dragons, then when there is but a handful left. It is simple math 100X > 10X. One does not attack when his own forces are at their weakest, he waits, and plans for the day they become stronger, and thus have a much better chance at winning.

But, you may say, Paarth knew it was really wiser to wait, knowing that Alduin would return but would be defeated for good the next time. However, this plan seems pretty risky. After all that waiting, what guarantee would Paarth have that he wouldn't end up with Alduin's teeth in his neck before it was all over? What guarantee would Paarth have that the dragonborn who defeated Alduin wouldn't set out on a new dragon genocide, turning on Paarth and spending the rest of his life putting as many dragons as possible down beyond any possibility of resurrection? Furthermore, even if the dragonborn was deceived into considering Paarth "safe" and died never knowing he'd been duped, why would the other dragons even consider following one who had already betrayed them once? Would YOU follow someone who'd already gotten you killed once by taking the other side in a war and teaching your enemy how to use your weapons? And, if they did follow him, what guarantee would Paarth have that Akatosh wouldn't simply send a new dragonborn to stop the new dragon tyranny?

 

Immortal or not, Paarth would have to be pretty stupid to put 4,000 years into a plan with so many things going against it.

There is never any guarantee in war, anyone who has commanded any sort of force would tell you that. Parth believed that he could convince the Dovahkiin that he was good, and that he oculd convince other dragons to come to his "good" side. It is a gamble, and war is based on them.

 

As to why the Dovah would follow Parth after he betrayed them, why would the dovah follow Alduin after he betrayed their father and god Akatosh? because Alduin had the strongest voice, and dragons will submit to those who have the stronger voice. Which is something many Dovah do at the end of skyrim.

Edited August 23, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[JimS61]

Exactly. He's lived in isolation for thousands of years which is like a prison sentence (a rather unusually long one) and IF he was going to do something he would have done so BEFORE a dragonborn was born.

As I pointed out to Freya1997, how is Parth supposed to do anything when he is the only dragon left alive? He need minions and other dragons to help him out, and he cant bring them back to life himself.

 

Seriously, it's like.... no one is actually thinking what they are saying through.

People know what they're saying. It's just that many of us won't kill just to be on the safe side.

In this country people are punished for crimes they've already cimmited, not for crime they "might" commit.

This applies to all imtelligent creatures, even dragons when applied to the gaming world.

 

There are still plenty of dragons around so what do you do, make an alphabeticial list and kill all dragons in alphabeticial order?

What difference whether you kill them now or next week or next month or next year?

 

If they don't bother any one, then leave them alone.

 

I already killed Alduin and just joined the legion and after a few missions for them a dragon attacked and he won't do that again because he's dead now.

From now on the only dragons I go after are those that cause trouble. Those that leave people alone have nothing to fear from me.

 

As far as Paarthurnax is concerned, if the Blades ago after him or send some one to kill him they'll have to get past my Dovahkiin

I stand by my friends and allies in real life and in games, too.

.

[sajuukkhar9000]

People know what they're saying. It's just that many of us won't kill just to be on the safe side.

In this country people are punished for crimes they've already cimmited, not for crime they "might" commit.

This applies to all imtelligent creatures, even dragons when applied to the gaming world.

 

There are still plenty of dragons around so what do you do, make an alphabeticial list and kill all dragons in alphabeticial order?

What difference whether you kill them now or next week or next month or next year?

 

If they don't bother any one, then leave them alone.

 

I already killed Alduin and just joined the legion and after a few missions for them a dragon attacked and he won't do that again because he's dead now.

From now on the only dragons I go after are those that cause trouble. Those that leave people alone have nothing to fear from me.

 

As far as Paarthurnax is concerned, if the Blades ago after him or send some one to kill him they'll have to get past my Dovahkiin

I stand by my friends and allies in real life and in games, too.

Self exile isn't a punishment though, Parth got to chill on top of a mountain for 4,000 years and could do almost whatever he wants. Parth has yet to pay for the mass genocide he caused.

 

Furthermore, if any dragons chose to to leave people alone I would leave them alone, they already payed for their crimes by being killed once already.

[nolgroth]

I like the "long game" idea and will borrow it for a tabletop RPG. Thanks.

 

As for Parth turning on the world, he very well may. If not him, perhaps another dragon will come along. Either way, the dragons will either try the same old domination game or not. Paarthurnax is the evil we know and not some unknown quantity. So far he has shown his allegiance to the dragonborn and that grants him a stay of execution. See, my character plays a long game too and war with the Thalmor/Aldmeri Dominion is coming. Better to keep the allies he has and foster that allegiance in case he has has to call upon the aid of the Dov in that coming war.

 

And with my own Altmer (ironic isn't it), the "long game" may well go another 800-900 years. Longer if he accepts that kind offer from the vampire gentleman on that island in the Sea of Ghosts. How long would Paarthurnax be willing to wait at that point, knowing that there is at least one person in the world capable of sending him to his final grave? Man, this just writes its own story doesn't it? :)