Next best thing for the US (and perhaps the world)

[Tidus44]

I’m not even an American but I have to wonder why anyone, let alone a woman, would vote for the Republican Party.

They say this election is not about social issues but about the economy. Maybe it isn’t about social issues, but the economy isn’t the only thing the Republicans want to “fix”.

 

The Republicans do not believe that contraception should be readily available and covered by health insurance.

If a woman becomes pregnant because of lack of access to birth control, the Republican Party believes she must endure it.

 

If the woman was raped, not only does the Republican Party think she should live with the emotional and physical scars, but also with the pregnancy from her rapist. That is if she becomes pregnant because the Republicans say that rape “shuts down” the possibility of pregnancy.

It’s also too bad if she has a life threatening hemorrhage while pregnant because that unborn life is worth more to the Republicans than her life is (until it’s born, of course).

 

The Republican Party wants an amendment to the Constitution, stating that a fetus is a person with all the rights of a grown person. If a woman does something while in the early stages of pregnancy and loses the baby, she would be criminally negligent.

 

It is hoped that no woman would never get in the situation of having an unwanted pregnancy, but there are thousands of teenage girls every year that get pregnant, who go to church every Sunday, who come from “good” families and who have made a “mistake”. The Republicans believe they should be punished for a mistake.

 

Funny how the Republicans say they don’t want regulations, unless of course it’s over women and their rights and body.

 

If you’re gay, the Republican Party believes you should not have the same rights to marry, have children, or even have the right to visit your partner should they be dying in a hospital.

The Republicans have been on the wrong side of every single civil rights issue since – well forever.

 

The Republicans believe it’s fair that a woman makes less money for the same job that a man does.

Which brings up the “binder” lie. Women’s groups approached Romney with the binders insisting he hire more women, Romney did not approach them. When Romney left office, there was 25% fewer women employed in government than when he started.

 

The Republican Party wants to cut federal student loans. Maybe you are lucky and have the money or maybe you lost it all in the stock market crash of 2008 – which was a result of the economic policies of the Republicans BTW.

The Republicans say that if a student needs assistance they should go to private lenders with high interest rates or – as Mitt Romney said - “borrow money from their parents”. Debt, including student debt is a huge drain on the economy.

 

The Republicans believe in tax cuts for top income earners and that cutting government spending creates jobs and spurs growth. This is exactly what Bush did and is exactly what the Europeans did to “fix” their economies.

Economists have shown this has been a drastic failure in Europe and please, take a look at the US economy and why it is like it is.

Tax cuts and service cuts don’t work in a recession. A balance of government spending and fair taxes does.

 

The Republicans say people need to work by themselves and to be successful they need to do it themself.

I have lots of friends who are Americans and even my brother is an American citizen. They all say being an American is about “us” – not “me” – and that “we” should be working for all of “us” and especially caring for the least of “us”.

 

Paying taxes for seniors to receive Medicare and Social Security – the citizens owe them that. These are the people who paid for the last generation to receive those same benefits and deserve them now when they need them. Do you not want some assurance that when you are 65 those benefits will be there?

I cannot imagine being 75 years old and shopping for an insurance company that might take me on or maybe my partner, so long as neither of us have a pre-existing condition.

The Republicans think we either stand alone or are a failure and who cares.

 

And do not mention the Republican’s assertion that 716 billion in Medicare cuts are going to happen, that has been proven false too many times.

 

In the last 50 years Democratic presidents have out done Republican presidents in job creation, 42 million to 24 million.

 

Unemployment is at a 4 year low.

Foreclosures are at a 5-year low.

Housing sales is on the rise.

Consumer confidence is at a 5 year high.

 

The US is coming around, slowly yes, but coming around.

 

And yet people still want to go back to the policies that put the US in the hole it just climbed out of by voting Republican.

[colourwheel]

In the last 50 years Democratic presidents have out done Republican presidents in job creation, 42 million to 24 million.

 

Unemployment is at a 4 year low.

Foreclosures are at a 5-year low.

Housing sales is on the rise.

Consumer confidence is at a 5 year high.

 

The US is coming around, slowly yes, but coming around.

 

And yet people still want to go back to the policies that put the US in the hole it just climbed out of by voting Republican.

 

I would totally have to agree with Tidus44 on this. America is getting better but too many people wont even recognize it because they expect to see some huge miracle that somehow after a president is elected the stockmarket will be up like 10,000,000 points, gas prices will be $1 a gallon for decades and some how employers will be knocking down at everyones doors trying to hire people offering them atleast $60 an hour for years to come.

 

One huge problem why people don't realize how much better America is getting is because of the pollution news networks like FoxNews and other political bias media. If you have ever watched FoxNews or read into any media that is politically bias the past 4 year not one good thing has ever been said about Obama or his administration from him saving our economy from destruction to getting bin laden.

 

Bias News media and other outlets with political agendas will dupe the public no matter what.

 

If you have been paying any attention to what has been going on recently, Romney wants to tear down any and all progress the obama administration has accomplished the past 4 year and implement the same advisors and policies that the bush administration had back into place.

Edited October 19, 2012 by colourwheel

[ginnyfizz]

Of course news networks can be biased.

Have you watched the BBC, aka the Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation, lately?

Just a reminder that bias can cut both ways. So how much of your statements about the Republican attitudes has come from the propaganda of media that are batting for the Democrats?

 

"The Republicans believe..." should that not be SOME Republicans? Because most of the Republican voters that I know don't stand for many if any of the things stated.

Some for example might want to give a Foetus all the rights of a grown person, but not all. In Roman law jurisdictions (ie ones with a civil code, common in Europe,and where the prevailing religion is Roman Catholic, note this is not a religious debate but a statement of fact) the rule on the status of a foetus is "Filio in utero pars viscerum matris est" - in other words, is part of the mother's viscera and has no separate legal rights. In common law jurisdictions like the UK, the rights of a foetus by and large do not crystallise until it is born alive. The USA being somewhere between the two, and with a whopping great Constitution, I could not see such a proposal flying.

 

But of course, I suppose Democrats can never tell a lie?

[colourwheel]

@ginnyfizz

 

i already said "Bias News media and other outlets with political agendas will dupe the public no matter what."

 

As for the topic of abortion... some poeples belief will trump everything else no matter what is going on in the world. I personally know some people will vote for no one who is pro-choice regardless if it means womens rights will be set back over 50 years from equal pay to allowing women to even vote.

 

Some people would rather see every baby be born in the world and suffer being paid less in the work place over men and have less rights as women over men.

 

Also Democrats do lie. But Republican lie too. The huge difference in american politics is that too many Republicans not only lie but they seem to believe the lies they tell till eventually it becomes fact to them. Regaurdless if there is huge amount of evidence suggesting their lies to be false.

Edited October 19, 2012 by colourwheel

[Tidus44]

Of course news networks can be biased.

Have you watched the BBC, aka the Bolshevik Broadcasting Corporation, lately?

Just a reminder that bias can cut both ways. So how much of your statements about the Republican attitudes has come from the propaganda of media that are batting for the Democrats?

 

"The Republicans believe..." should that not be SOME Republicans? Because most of the Republican voters that I know don't stand for many if any of the things stated.

Some for example might want to give a Foetus all the rights of a grown person, but not all. In Roman law jurisdictions (ie ones with a civil code, common in Europe,and where the prevailing religion is Roman Catholic, note this is not a religious debate but a statement of fact) the rule on the status of a foetus is "Filio in utero pars viscerum matris est" - in other words, is part of the mother's viscera and has no separate legal rights. In common law jurisdictions like the UK, the rights of a foetus by and large do not crystallise until it is born alive. The USA being somewhere between the two, and with a whopping great Constitution, I could not see such a proposal flying.

 

But of course, I suppose Democrats can never tell a lie?

 

Yes, news networks are biased and yes, I do watch the BBC, but as little as possible because one is subjected to 24/7 brainwashing by an endless stream of English propaganda disguised as news and entertainment that is actually biased and falsified to keep the Welsh enslaved by a cruel nation bent on cultural genocide. I am well aware of how an oppressive people can control the media to keep people enslaved and to believe what they want those enslaved people to believe. While North American news media has its faults, they could take a huge lesson from the state controlled English media about biased news reporting.

 

I do not follow politics in England much except in anticipation of how soon my Welsh brothers and sisters can separate themselves from the oppressive policies of the English and so I might be able to return home one day; but, I would suggest that the political systems are not that significantly different that one would be confused by the terminology.

 

To clarify for you in case you are not familiar with the terminology, when one says "Republican Party" and the more common term “Republicans”, what one is referring to is those members of the organization whose aim is to gain control of the government apparatus and who make policy and decisions about what those members will do if elected. It usually does not refer to the individual voter or individual who may support the political party.

If the context of my post was confusing for you, I'll make the effort to be clearer that the post was about what the Party believes, not specifically about what every individual who supports the Republican Party believes in the future. I trust this explanation is adequate to allow you to understand what was posted.

 

As for whether or not the Republican Party can place into policy and law all of their beliefs, that was not my point either. My point was and is simply exactly what the Republican Party has stated quite clearly within their publications and policy documentation and statements made by various members of the Party. Again, while the media is biased, the information I believe is what comes out of the mouths of the members of the Republican party as I watch them during the RNC and from various sources of information available other than the media. While it is possible that the news media is doing a voice over to make one believe the politicians are saying something they are not, I highly doubt this is occuring.

 

The issue was also not about who lies and who does not. It was about what the Republicans have said and stated as policy and platform for election. I also only posted information that is easily verified about the changes that are happening in the US. If you have information that what I said is in error, I am willing to stand corrected when you provide information you feel is more accurate.

 

As for the issue of the rights of a fetus, I am not in a position to debate what England or Europe does or thinks and actually have very little interest as it is meaningless here in NA. However, I am very well versed in what is going on in my country and the USA regarding the debate and while it may not be in England or Europe, the issue in North America is very much a religious debate and a belief of the Republican Party and other conservative organizations that they can regulate and legislate morality based upon their Christian beliefs.

[JimboUK]

I don't think it matters much who wins, neither of them will serve the American people, they'll serve those who bankroll them. On the subject of the media we could do with a Fox News over here to counter the constant stream of left wing drivel put out by the state broadcaster, a broadcaster we're forced to fund even if we never look at it.

[ginnyfizz]

Welsh independence from English oppression??? ;D (as there isn't a ROFL emoticon). About as likely as the Scots when they realise how much they'd lose in subsidies from the filthy oppressors, which is why, for example, they pay naff all for NHS treatments, whereas the filthy oppressors have to pay prescription, optical, dental, yadda yadda unless they have an exemption. Might also surprise you to know how many English buy earplugs to block out the whingeing...

 

Also there is no need to be so condescending. Some English people actually learn to read and write and do quite well at school, even university, and are fully aware of the difference between "Republican Party" and "Republicans". Some of us have been political activists ourselves you know, and hell yes I was a follower of Saint Margaret Hilda and a card carrying member of the Conservative Party. Well we can't let the left wing think they have the floor to themselves. So I really do not need a lecture on that.

 

As usual you totally miss the point. Which was that politicans all talk a load of mushroom fodder, although according to the selective bias in this particular topic apparently it is only that mushroom fodder that emanates from the Republican Party that is particularly shocking. It matters not a jot what parties say as a platform for election, or state as their policy, because they play to different galleries at different times and say what they think choice sectors of their electorate want to hear. They may have no intention of carrying them out, or they may know full well that they will be prevented from carrying them out by either lack of support or even furious opposition in either House (whether in Britain or the USA I am talking here)or by a challenge in the courts, citing lack of constitutionality. So what politicians say and what they do are different matters, and that example of Republican positions on abortion law is a prime example.

 

And the position on the status of a foetus is totally relevant, because should the United States Supreme Court ever have to rule on the issue, they would be considering such issues. As usual, you have missed the bit where I said about the USA neither being a Roman Law nor a Common Law jurisdiction but somewhere in between, and the Justices would draw from established US principles as well as any other arguments.

[Tidus44]

Welsh independence from English oppression??? (as there isn't a ROFL emoticon). About as likely as the Scots when they realise how much they'd lose in subsidies from the filthy oppressors, which is why, for example, they pay naff all for NHS treatments, whereas the filthy oppressors have to pay prescription, optical, dental, yadda yadda unless they have an exemption. Might also surprise you to know how many English buy earplugs to block out the whingeing...

 

A typical response - and not totally unexpected - "it doesn't and can't happen because I say so". And, yes, I am completely convinced by your intellectual reasoning that every group anywhere in history that has ever worked towards independence and self determination has said, “Hold on, how do we resolve the funding gap? Let’s wait until we can afford it.” and put everything on hold until the economy was better. I guess that explains why the sun never set on the British Empire and why all those North American, Australian, Indian and African countries still bow to the English Parliament.

It is nice to hear that this attitude is prevalent amongst the English, it will make things that much easier as we move forward to independence and self determination.

 

Also there is no need to be so condescending. Some English people actually learn to read and write and do quite well at school, even university, and are fully aware of the difference between "Republican Party" and "Republicans". Some of us have been political activists ourselves you know, and hell yes I was a follower of Saint Margaret Hilda and a card carrying member of the Conservative Party. Well we can't let the left wing think they have the floor to themselves. So I really do not need a lecture on that.

 

Honestly, I wasn't sure if you were actually confused by my post or being deliberately obtuse by stating "most of the Republican voters that I know don't stand for many if any of the things stated" when quite obviously I was speaking of the Party members who control policy and decisions and not every individual who votes Republican. At least you answered that question for me.

If you feel I was being condescending, you may feel exactly as you wish and be as offended as you want - that too is rather typical - I only offered an explanation to clarify my post.

 

As usual you totally miss the point. Which was that politicans all talk a load of mushroom fodder, although according to the selective bias in this particular topic apparently it is only that mushroom fodder that emanates from the Republican Party that is particularly shocking. It matters not a jot what parties say as a platform for election, or state as their policy, because they play to different galleries at different times and say what they think choice sectors of their electorate want to hear. They may have no intention of carrying them out, or they may know full well that they will be prevented from carrying them out by either lack of support or even furious opposition in either House (whether in Britain or the USA I am talking here)or by a challenge in the courts, citing lack of constitutionality. So what politicians say and what they do are different matters, and that example of Republican positions on abortion law is a prime example.

 

Actually I didn't miss the point. I do believe I stated very clearly my post was not about who lies and who does not, it was specifically about what the Republican Party has stated as policy and platform for an election. I also said quite clearly that whether or not the Republican Party can place into policy and law all of their beliefs was not my point either.

In fact, I did not state anywhere at any time that the Republicans were lying or the Democrats were, so I fail to see what your point is, other than to be deliberately controversial and argumentative.

If you took offense to my pointing out that Mr. Romney did lie during the debate regarding the binders full of women, I didn't lie about it - he did - and it was in reference to a point mentioned previously in the thread. If you have some point that contradicts that Mr. Romney lied, then please feel free to post it.

If you would like to point out where the Democrats or Republican or anyone else has lied, please feel free to do so as well, but I have no interest in that and frankly it is completely unimportant and wholly irrelevant to the thread.

If there is any point that I posted that was in error, please feel free to post what you feel is more accurate.

 

And the position on the status of a foetus is totally relevant, because should the United States Supreme Court ever have to rule on the issue, they would be considering such issues. As usual, you have missed the bit where I said about the USA neither being a Roman Law nor a Common Law jurisdiction but somewhere in between, and the Justices would draw from established US principles as well as any other arguments.

 

And again, your point about courts and law and whatever is completely irrelevant to the Republican Party and the thread regarding the Republican Party establishing a policy or platform because as I said very clearly the issue in North America is very much a religious debate and a belief of the Republican Party and other conservative organizations that they can regulate and legislate morality based upon their Christian beliefs.

What the courts consider or do not was not anything I mentioned or suggested and again was not part of the discussion I was involved in or the thread.

Again, if you feel it necessary to bring these points up, please feel free to do so, but do not suggest that I have posted anything related to them.

Edited October 20, 2012 by Tidus44

[colourwheel]

I don't think it matters much who wins, neither of them will serve the American people, they'll serve those who bankroll them.

 

I would have to disagree with you on this. Just look at some of the things Obama has done for the American people...

 

http://3chicspolitico.com/president-obamas-accomplishments

 

Obama has done more for the people of America than most presidents can say during such very bad economical times.

[JimboUK]

I don't think it matters much who wins, neither of them will serve the American people, they'll serve those who bankroll them.

 

I would have to disagree with you on this. Just look at some of the things Obama has done for the American people...

 

http://3chicspolitico.com/president-obamas-accomplishments

 

Obama has done more for the people of America than most presidents can say during such very bad economical times.

 

The U.S is still going full steam ahead in the direction of a default, that isn't in the interests of the American People, things may be bad now but it's nothing compared to the nightmare of a default. The corporate welfare hasn't stopped, nothing has been done about the hemorrhaging of jobs to China, the bankers are still robbing the American people and Americans are still dying in foreign lands.

 

@Tidus44 All the Welsh assembly has to do is pass a motion calling for a referendum on independence, Westminster couldn't ignore that just as they haven't ignored the same thing from north of the border. Then all you have to do in convince the people, an uphill task given that when last polled only 10% supported independence. Even the Scots will struggle to get a yes vote, polls show the English are more in favour of Scottish independence than the Scots are.