Hearthfire - Opposing views

[El`derina]

Okay... I have seen a ton of opposition on this DLC... a lot of people are pointing out why it fails and subsquently get voted down or generally told that its not a DLC made for PC's >.>- I would like to open a friendly discussion on everyones views.

 

My big beef is that they didn't really add anything... they put in the same stuff, with a tiny tiny mechanic change and a couple new homes(dont gimme that 'it's modular' bull,.. all the homes were modular in the same sense, they just didnt have adoptable children or skeever infestations)

 

I strongly disagree that people are stating it was made for console users. While that might have influenced it to some degree, Skyrim was made as a game, a game to be played and the Creation Kit as a side thing. The target audience are the players, as a whole.

That aside, I wouldn't buy this as a PC user, a Xbox user, or a PS3 user... why? it fails to add anything to the game, period. Besides, It's a severe case of sims 3,.. we add in a small mechanic change of one small aspect of the game and throw on a pricetag, stuff that either should have been in the main game to begin with or added in as a patch... their mounted combat was better than this and most people dont even use that(myself included).

 

Now for $5, I might ask myself why am I griping at all. You either take it or leave it, kinda like the horse armor for oblivion.

 

Whats everyone elses thoughts?

[JanusForbeare]

Don't like it. Not for what it is, but for what it represents: increased emphasis placed on console gamers, at the expense of PC gamers. And we're all just going along with it.

 

People who play Skyrim on PC don't need Hearthfire; 90% of the content it adds is fluff that many of us have modded into our games already. It adds a couple of new features (because clearly baking bread is a higher priority than resolving the Thalmor storyline), but by and large it doesn't add anything we haven't seen before. Despite it being essentially redundant, a huge percentage of PC gamers will shell out the $5 for it, to get at those one or two new features, and because "it's so cheap!". So Bethesda makes millions off of PC players for something that probably cost them a few thousand bucks to build, and is primarily intended for console gamers.

 

Console gamers, of course, will welcome the DLC. Finally, they think, finally, we get to experience Skyrim the way the PC players do. Well, yeah, sort of, but if you really want to experience the game at its fullest potential, why on Earth would you choose to play it on a console? These days, a home computer is as common as a toaster. If your computer can't run Skyrim, then why not sell the X-Box and invest in more RAM or a better processor?

 

So, once again, we have a fabulous game and a great franchise, hamstrung by the need to pander to the lowest common denominator. Same story as the horrible vanilla UI, or the extra month or so we had to wait for Dawnguard, or the continuing emphasis of cosmetics over content. As someone who's been playing TES games since Daggerfall, all I can do is shake my head sadly, and watch something beautiful slowly decay.

[StayFrosty05]

I both agree and disagree with you Janus:

 

I agree for the fact that I would much rather vanilla game issues be resolved first....more choices, richer RP game play....such as dealing with the Thalmor/ extra dialog to tell Delphine and Esbern where to get off when they insist you kill Paarthurnax/ no more harassment from Brynjolf once you say 'no' or better yet be able to destroy the TG instead of hearing the constant complaints in Riften and not being able to do a thing about it/ being able to do something about the situation in the Reach/ etc....

 

I disagree with you in regards to it being so easy for everyone to be able to acquire and enjoy a gaming PC....many people have families and only one decent PC to be shared by all...it's much more realistic for many to have a PC and an XBox...the XBox for gaming, the PC primarily for homework/business/etc....And you are wrong that all these Console players will welcome Heartthfire....it was only fairly recently that I was able to convert Skyrim from XBox to PC (we have two PC's in my home now, one very game capable, the other also, though not to the same high standard and quality...and we only have two quality PC's due to a friend in the right business helping us make that happen...I have teenage daughters, they have homework and University...our PC's are both busy)....I can assure you though, if I was still on the XBox, I would have been heart broken at the news of this Hearthfire, what an incredible waste it is when there are so many other in game issues that need to be resolved...I would much rather a much richer game play choice than playing house.

[Lachdonin]

I'm going to have to raill against this, because though i agree with most of the information, i dissagree with the conclusions.

 

First off, i've also been playing since Daggerfall, and i don't see the franchise as decaying. Changing, yes, but decay implies it is fading away to nothingness, where the opposite is obviously true. TES games are more popular than ever BECAUSE of the console audience. Not offering them something, or gods forbid cutting them out altogether, can only serve to hurt the franchise at this point. I do agree that mistakes have been made, and there have been missed opportunities (imagine a Skyrim advertising campaign saying, in effect "Play Skyrim the way it was meant to be played, on the PC".) but it is more a factor of unrealised potential than outright mad choices. Perks, dual handed gameplay, cinematic finishers etc. are all great ideas, but failed in their implementation or suffered from a lack of refinement. That doesn't mean that the Console was responsible for these failings, nor does it mean catering to the lowest common denominator. What it means is the Bethesda doesn't put as much work into getting these things past the concept phase as they probably should, but lets face it, they've always had that tendancy on their track record.

 

Second, Hearthfire does not offer what PC gamers have had all along, at least not in any mod i've seen. With the CK, we can plop a sprawling palace down in the middle of the tundra with impunity, but i have yet to see anything which allows you to actually BUILD something, in game. We still don't have all the details about how this DLC will work, whether you will actually have control over the appearance of your new estate, and how the furnature is arranged, but until then i for one am hesitantly hopefull it won't just be like building that town in Bloodmoon. Regardless, the ability to build something within the world has great potential in pulling people away from their consoles, and if Bethesda wanted to (or the community, if we're loud enough on the Forums) they could use this as a teaser to get people to transfer over to the PC for nothing else but the modding.

 

All of that said, do i think this content is really warrenting it's own, seperate DLC? No, not really. A secondary inclusion in the next major DLC pack (i have heard murmors about Molag Bal invading Skyrim...) in a similar way to the Aetherium Forge questline would have, IMO, been the best choice. Will i buy it? That entirely depends on what, exactly you can do. If it is truely customizable in the homes layout and furnishings, i may, but i'm more inclined to stick with my CK.

 

Again, though, this could be a great opportunity to pull players away from their consoles and into the PC (and by extention, the Modding) community. Whether thats the intent or not (probably not, but we can dream about Bethesda thinking ahead, can't we?) only Bethesda knows.

[Satorinu]

Snip

 

Just ouch.. that was a brutal review; I mean utterly brutal! 3; My opinion differs but honestly you are right for the most part; it is rather redundant.

 

Personally I welcome the DLC still; I mean we did have an adopt a child mod already, and a build your own home mod .. two of them I think, one I use but the house is fixed in one spot but you can build it how you want for the most part almost identically to Hearthfire (if not IDENTICALLY, you read a book for what resources you need, and go to the smithing table to start your work!). and one of which even let you build it anywhere just like Hearthfire, of course, not without it's plague of issues at present... but I doubt a defense can be made that "Hearthfire" will lack bugs; but never the less--

 

I do believe Hearthfire will be a polished addition overall and was easy .. and could have been even easier to make in the long run, hell, could have taken the scripting from the modding community, revamped it, and done! A few hours work from a small team of devs! Heres where I can *really* agree with you, it's a waste of PC gamers time if it's not a polished addition, if it's riddled with bugs and becomes a patching nightmare of save bloating horror to the point the resources gained from Hearthfire are practically useless as nobody wants to turn it on.

 

Regardless the modding community will find the resources within useful to SOME degree and certainly various people will build upon what it releases; I have little doubt the children of Hearthfire will become victim to potions that rapidly have them grow up into fighting companions, Daedric sacrifices, and even the build your own home feature revamped into build your own town and economy, with even more options for customization than it releases with in enough time; and on stable (we can hope) base code from Bethesda; one of the custom house creators welcomed the DLC if I read the post correctly somewhere out there, not sure which of the two but regardless it basically completed his work for him and now he can just go on to updating Hearthfire with the content he'd created, merging whatever features are lost and having it grow, rather than keep building it from scratch.

 

Any DLC is good DLC on PC, in my opinion at least; redundant or not, I just feel sorry for the console players.. who will be stuck with Vanilla Hearthfire :P personally I have NEVER liked player homes.. I have one, as mentioned before, but it's fixed on where it is.. so I'll welcome this new updated version and the mods to come for it. In the end, this whole DLC was planned from week one; the base code was developed and shown in videos around the time Skyrim originally released, so it's no surprise this DLC was churned out; just a pity it wasn't months ago and honestly I'm glad to see the console players being thrown a bone while also being a mildly useful DLC for PC gamers one way or another.

 

OT: Looking forward to your companion mod Janus. Can't.. freaking.. wait.. for .. a decent .. voiced.. male.. companion with an actual.. PERSONALITY! :ohdear:

[JanusForbeare]

You do make some very good points (both of you), but as I said in a previous thread, this is ultimately a matter of opinion, and I don't want to get into a debate over opinions. I am of course still interested to see how others respond.

 

I do want to respond to this point:

 

Second, Hearthfire does not offer what PC gamers have had all along, at least not in any mod i've seen. With the CK, we can plop a sprawling palace down in the middle of the tundra with impunity, but i have yet to see anything which allows you to actually BUILD something, in game

 

I'm sort of surprised at this. Haven't you tried Tundra Defense?

[Jrew]

I voted yes, because of immersion, to build a house ( though there is a mod out there like this) by collecting materials and the use of deeds. The only thing stupid about it is that it should of been installed during the launch of the game, if they were going to aquire this set up anyways. It seems more plausible to recieve a piece of land after defeating the first dragon, from the whiterun steward, than a home, then building it.

Yes there are a lot of things that need to be delt with first, like Dawnguard, and vanilla issues, but thats the way developers work I guess. Plus before, I had Skyrim on PS3, and it blows my mind that if I did not have my PC I would still be waiting for Dawngaurd, and potentially Hearthfire.

[Satorinu]

Second, Hearthfire does not offer what PC gamers have had all along, at least not in any mod i've seen. With the CK, we can plop a sprawling palace down in the middle of the tundra with impunity, but i have yet to see anything which allows you to actually BUILD something, in game.

 

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/18480

 

Just not anywhere you choose, it's fixed, but it's actually 'build' and in multiable layouts, styles, features, ect.

[Lachdonin]

Huh, well... I suppose i've been too wrapped up in my own (slowly progressing) plugin to spend sufficient time keeping taps on whats been happening.

 

Regardless, i think Hearthfire, with some cunning (re. Devious) marketing (or community pressure) could be the best thing that has happened to The Elder Scrolls, a push to the old ways and a revival of PC gaming. If we can kill the next-gen consoles before release, we'd have an even better chance. Whose up for raiding Sony's R&D department?

[Patrick2me]

The way I see it, this is just a small addon. Its not like the entire Bethesda team was devoted on making this. Plus, no one is making you buy it, you could always go for the free alternative and download mods that let you build your own home.