Do Conspirisy theories have any Truth to them?

[Tidus44]

As for the rain water in Utah - http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=29197 and Washington State - http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/wr/hq/rwh.html Good reasons why people should not collect or divert rainwater in areas with limited water sources, especially the amounts the car dealer was collecting.

 

As for the woman in Oak Park - http://abcnews.go.com/US/vegetable-garden-brings-criminal-charges-oak-park-michigan/story?id=14047214#.UEIjCSLNuCk. Its against a city law and she did it anyway because she didn't agree with the law or its interpretation. She chose to do this as a means to test the law and the important part here is "if the court finds her guilty". It is possible (but unlikely) the court could find her innocent and over turn the law. She could have planted as much as she wanted in her back yard, but for whatever reason chose to do this in her front yard.

From the city:

Before building the beds, Bass did her due diligence and checked with the city planner for his approval of the project. After she described her vision, and explained her purpose, the city explained that such a project would be against code, and advised her not to proceed. Mrs. Bass would not be swayed, however, and went ahead with her mission undaunted. Following the project’s completion, neighbors complained about Mrs. Bass’ unconventional plantings. The city investigated, and the beds were found to be against ordinance just as Mrs. Bass had been informed they would be. A warning was issued, which was ignored, and this was followed by issuance of a formal citation.

 

When it was clear the Bass family was not going to remove the raised beds as they had been asked to do, a violation was charged. This apparently got Mrs. Bass’s blood boiling. No doubt she was proud of her efforts and pleased with the success of her DIY project; and perhaps it was a lovely teaching opportunity for her children. But she acted with intentional disregard of her knowledge that the project had been deemed inappropriate for the front yard of her home, and she was on notice that she would be called to account for her actions.

 

Passionate, involved citizens are critical to strong government, especially at the local level, and if the Basses were truly offended by the city’s interpretation of the ordinance, they had every right to take a very simple action and challenge its application before defying the code as written. Instead, Mrs. Bass proceeded against the city’s advice and then became frustrated when held accountable.

 

Many communities in North America have laws about how homes and properties look to make neighborhoods look esthetically pleasing and somewhat uniform and sometimes for good reason. For example, in my community fences on the front lawn must not exceed 2 feet in height. Why? So it doesn't interfere with fire fighters who may respond to a fire because the front street is the primary access route to the property. As for food, what's next? Maybe she might want to have some chickens, or a pig or two or maybe even a cow. They are food too, so why not? Simple, one's rights only extend to where they effect someone else's right. If her garden made the neighborhood look "poor" and "3rd world" as some people felt, then that has an effect on property values. Her right to grow food does not overwhelm the right of the neighbors to have a desirable looking neighborhood.

 

To add to bbens points on the FEMA camps, first the contracts and information about the camps is easily obtainable through US government web sites. The camps are multipurpose camps with anticipated use of training areas for ICE personnel to FEMA stockpile sites and yes to making them temporary prisons for persons who are already prisoners in prisons but who may have to be evacuated due to some natural disaster (ie: hurricane Isaac effected 8 states and about 50 million people, some who are prisoners in federal, state and county jails. Not likely to place prisoners in the same evacuation center as the general population) and even in case of civil disorder and riot. I do not know how many natural disasters you have been to, but I have been to a number as an emergency responder. It is not unusual for people to get somewhat upset and do rash things after they have lost everything they had and their social world has collapsed and they are not sure where their next meal and drink of water is coming from. It isn't pretty, it isn't fun, but it might be necessary to do something about 25,000 evacuees who decide to riot because they need food and water.

The best part of these FEMA camps conspiracy for me is the locations that have been listed. I particularly like the ones identified where FEMA has no jurisdiction or even the ability to make such a camp.

 

The plastic coffins (actually vaults) are commonly used in North America, especially in areas where the ground is swampy or wet. They serve two purposes. First, for some reason some people have a concern about their body or a relatives body getting wet once buried and the vaults are used to keep the coffin and body dry. A second reason, is in very wet areas coffins can be pushed up out of the ground eventually and the vaults prevent this from occurring. Not every cemetery is located on prime property and where I live for example, many people are buried in such vaults and the vaults are made from metal, fibreglass or plastic depending on the individuals choice and cost limits (plastic being the cheapest).

 

I also looked into the food shortage. Yes, this is well known and its just a simple fact that there is only so much land capable of growing food for a specific amount of population. The population is growing somewhat faster than the amount of land capable of growing food. Everything I saw or read suggested this is a problem that will manifest itself about the year 2050, but the world needs to begin now to address the problem.

As for the ominous idea of rioting in the streets for food in the next year due to "food shortages" in the news. Yes, the US had a bad year and unfortunately the hardest hit was corn which is not only a people food, but is feed for beef, dairy and hogs. With the failure of the corn crop, in order to feed animals farmers will have to purchase more expense feed and thus cannot afford to feed as many animals and thus will cull their herds. However, while the US did have a failure, their neighbor to the north had a very good years and has produced a fairly significant surplus. I am also aware that Australia had a very good year as did China. The other place with a bit of a failure was Russia, but only in their buckwheat crop. There is still lots of food there.

The only thing these shortages will do is raise the prices of food in the future. I doubt there will be people rioting in the streets in most countries for food in 2013. Sadly, those countries (such as in Africa and some middle eastern) who almost always fail to produce sufficient food will still suffer food shortages and like still see riots such as in Mozambique and Syria last year.

 

The last point is the 5 million population. To make this a bit easier, because there are ~6 billion people on the planet, lets just consider USA. To get the USA to a 5 million population means ~295 million people must be killed, presumably by the 5 million chosen to survive. That means every one of the 5 million would have to kill 59 people. Not exactly an overwhelming problem to kill 59 people, but how does one dispose of 295 million bodies? The details of the plan would be really interesting to see as 5 million people killing off ~5.9 billion and disposing of the bodies is not going to happen in a short period and seems like its going to take some serious planning to accomplish.

 

Do I reject every conspiracy I hear about? No, because it is likely that people do conspire and try and keep secret certain things, especially when doing something they shouldn't. But, as someone has already said, thinking about and applying some logic to many of these so called conspiracies tends to point out how improbable and impossible they are.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Tidus44

[mizdarby]

The projected population increase versus the ability to produce food, will through simple mathematics, show that at some point in the future there will be a shortfall, and it will be no longer possible to feed all the citizens of the world. It's not a conspiracy as such, just simple logistics.

Now how individuals react to having to find new food sources for it's own population, may lead to actions which are currently not on the agenda. I personally think GM food will be the norm within 20 years, simply because of it's ability to produce more tonnage of foodstuffs per hectacre. However GM at best will simply delay the inevitable. At some point a future US President or a UK Prime Minister(for example) will have some harsh choices to make. Perhaps nations will get invaded on "UN Mandates", not for their oil, but for their food. Good chance there will be some seriously good conspiracy theories then, some of which will be true.

[dunmermaiden]

Hmmmm....

 

http://www.nettally.com/prusty/gmfoods.htm

 

http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.htm

 

http://www.progress.org/gene10.htm

 

Seems that these are toxic or show signs of being toxic and affect the kidney and liver.

[Tidus44]

Hmmmm....

 

http://www.nettally.com/prusty/gmfoods.htm

 

http://www.biolsci.org/v05p0706.htm

 

http://www.progress.org/gene10.htm

 

Seems that these are toxic or show signs of being toxic and affect the kidney and liver.

 

Not sure how GE food is a conspiracy or a cover up or even specifically ominous.

 

It seems to be a rather large issue and well known to the public and many countries have regulations and approval systems that must be met before such food can be placed into the food supply. Again, if one is interested enough there are easily identified web sites with information that can be verified or confirmed which have good information on what is going on in one's country regarding GE foods so one can avoid GE foods if they choose. On the other hand GM foods are wide spread throughout the food supply.

 

As for the page links posted. Old, out of date, links don't work and one is from the media (who trusts them for anything truthful or honest?) and no supporting documentation or references - all which just cause me to be suspicious of the information at face value and look for something that can be verified.

[ginnyfizz]

I think conspiracy theories are often born out of the kind of emotional incontinence that seems to happen a lot these days. Many folk cannot accept that anything ever has to be kept private, or perhaps should be kept private. The Facebook generation that lets everything hang out in public and thinks there is no harm in sexting (until the spotty oik who received the pics posts them all over the net...)cannot accept that there is ever a good reason for secrets. Thus we have the Wikileaks situation, no-one can grasp the seriousness of the fact that what Manning and Assange leaked between them could, for example, put some people in serious danger. Actually the Assange farce is a perfect example of a conspiracy theory gone viral and where wild speculation has flown in the face of the facts. Everyone is talking about him being extradited to the USA when the USA has made no request for this. And apparently has no plans to, they have Bradley Manning for the crime. It is famously left-liberal, human rights respecting Sweden that has requested him to answer a charge of sexual assault. The irony is that from the evidence it looks as if he would have a very good chance of escaping the charges, if only he were not such a blooming drama queen and holed himself up in the embassy of Ecuador, not a country famous for holding human rights sacred.

 

Talking of drama queens, in Britain we have one of the mothers of all conspiracy theories, the Diana Conspiracy. While we're on emotional incontinence, the hysteria that surrounded her death really quite disturbed me and I am afraid to say the song "Oh what a circus..." from the musical Evita kept popping into my mind at the time. I could understand the vague memories from when I was a small child of grown men weeping as Churchill's cortege passed by because of what he genuinely meant to many people, but not the Diana hoolie. Anyway, then we got the "She wuz murdered by Prince Philip" theories, when she very obviously, and tragically, died (far too young, I admit) in a car crash occasioned by a drunk driver who was going far too fast.

[dazzerfong]

To be fair, what is the truth? The media (and just about everyone else) only focuses on the theories which are (currently) beyond ridiculous. I don't think it's fair to just dismiss everyone because you believe one thing, and they believe another. However, if they coerce you into thinking one way, that's another story. No-one's coercing anyone right now: it's all just speculation.

 

I have my own theories on the Assange case. I also have enough logic to determine some possible outcomes should he actually be extradited (Ilich comes in mind, but that's a far example). On the other hand, I also know the potential 'problems' he could cause by not being extradited. So in the end, who wins? The majority? Or what you say? Same thing goes for the Diana case. Would we ever know? Probably not. Do we actually want the truth? Not really, because if (and IF) there is another truth behind it, it's probably going to be ugly.

 

Problem is that we're not actually participating in such events. Why judge when you weren't there? Because you possess superior intellect? Because you are cynical? Because you are trustworthy? No. I believe everything has some truth to it: how we develop these facts is another story.

 

By the way, I don't see how Ecuador's human rights (or lack of) record has anything to do with here.

[JimboUK]

I think conspiracy theories are often born out of the kind of emotional incontinence that seems to happen a lot these days. Many folk cannot accept that anything ever has to be kept private, or perhaps should be kept private. The Facebook generation that lets everything hang out in public and thinks there is no harm in sexting (until the spotty oik who received the pics posts them all over the net...)cannot accept that there is ever a good reason for secrets. Thus we have the Wikileaks situation, no-one can grasp the seriousness of the fact that what Manning and Assange leaked between them could, for example, put some people in serious danger. Actually the Assange farce is a perfect example of a conspiracy theory gone viral and where wild speculation has flown in the face of the facts. Everyone is talking about him being extradited to the USA when the USA has made no request for this. And apparently has no plans to, they have Bradley Manning for the crime. It is famously left-liberal, human rights respecting Sweden that has requested him to answer a charge of sexual assault. The irony is that from the evidence it looks as if he would have a very good chance of escaping the charges, if only he were not such a blooming drama queen and holed himself up in the embassy of Ecuador, not a country famous for holding human rights sacred.

 

Talking of drama queens, in Britain we have one of the mothers of all conspiracy theories, the Diana Conspiracy. While we're on emotional incontinence, the hysteria that surrounded her death really quite disturbed me and I am afraid to say the song "Oh what a circus..." from the musical Evita kept popping into my mind at the time. I could understand the vague memories from when I was a small child of grown men weeping as Churchill's cortege passed by because of what he genuinely meant to many people, but not the Diana hoolie. Anyway, then we got the "She wuz murdered by Prince Philip" theories, when she very obviously, and tragically, died (far too young, I admit) in a car crash occasioned by a drunk driver who was going far too fast.

 

If I was Assange I'd be worried too, Sweden were involved in extraordinary rendition, they're no strangers to breaking their own laws to appease the U.S.

[Minuteman308]

Here is a link debunking the FEMA camp conspiracy - Not that I expect people who subscribe to stuff like that to accept reality over fantasy. http://www.popularme...ry/news/4312850

Okay, i read it and it "debunks" a few strawman positions but not more. A few years ago, the FEMA Camps and the ICE Agency which controlled them at that time even had websites with footage.

I also saw a footage of some local buerocrate henchman shuting down a community greenhouse. The people who build it up where basicly young democrate voters and greenies, these can be pushed around.

 

By the way. Popular Mechanics was the magazine defending the pancake theory and that a steel concert building can collaps by a few fires. Popular Mechanics is yellow press.

[WarRatsG]

Personally, I believe that while there is probably no New World Order type governing body that rules all of Earth, it is almost undeniable that every government withholds information from the public - although it remains to be seen how important that information could be. This may not be such a bad thing. Lets be serious: if an alien ambassador was to make his way to Earth, we would want them to meet up with an ambassador of our own, who we knew and trusted - not an ignorant yet well-armed individual intent on safeguarding the sanctity of his anus from probing.

 

Thing is, it's not really the government that has an NWO type of control over our lives. If anyone has that kind of control, its the fashion industry. They have us convinced that we need their name written all over us, and that we need to pay out for the privilege of showing off that name to the world. As much as it surprises me, Kanye West puts it well when he says that "they make us hate ourselves and love their wealth". While consumerism and materialism are sustained by many different sources, the closed loop it has thrown us all into is pretty much the same as what a NWO would create. The beauty of it is that they don't even have to force it any more - our peers will quite happily condemn us for not following the rules of this broken, self-perpetuating system. To succeed in life, we have to just surrender to the system and accept that we will never be as happy as someone in a magazine.

 

I could go on for ages about how arbitrarily useless and self-destructive the fashion industry can be, but I'll reign it in for now. ;)

[phoneyLogic]

Let me say so, conspiracies do exist. It is a known fact that some people may work together against the law to achieve advantages.

 

http://en.wikipedia....acy_%28civil%29

http://en.wikipedia....acy_%28crime%29

http://en.wikipedia....%28political%29

 

Of cause there are laws against it.

 

But what is with conspiracy theories? Is anyone on the internet who has a lots of phantasy or otherwise manages to type some awkward nonsensical theory right?

 

I don't think so.^^

 

Of cause there is no rule which says: Every (whatever-)theorie is principally wrong.

A theory is a theory unless it has proven to be the truth (also known as proven facts). ;)

Edited September 3, 2012 by tortured Tomato