Derailing the Railroads of Skyrim

[Moraevik]

I have an idea for a worthy mod, but I want to talk about it, here, rather than in the modding forum because the information presented in this topic might help some readers avoid the railroading that is rampant in Skyrim. What I want is for people to help me ferret out all the little dirty tricks that Bethesda put into the game to force most of the major quest-lines into the player's journal, whether the player would be interested in pursuing them or not. I also want to hear suggestions about how these things can be avoided in an unmodded game and how a mod might deal with them to put choice back into the hands of the players. I'll start, but feel free to discuss anything presented in this topic.

 

Note that I'm a novice modder and may not even be capable of accomplishing the fixes needed to give the player free choice in these matters. I'll gladly step aside and let a more capable modder do this, but what I'd like to see is a comprehensive fix for the railroading, rather than a lot of smaller mods.

 

I've seen the term "entanglement" being used for the ways many of the quest-lines are tied together, and that's a pretty good term for it. I feel that quests should not be arbitrarily tied together. That's one issue I'd like to discuss. Another is the fact that some of the Words of Power needed to complete dragon shouts are in quest-locked dungeons. Another is that you can overhear a conversation, or be greeted by a guard and have a quest logged into your journal. Another is that you can pick up a book and read it and have the same thing happen. These are examples, not necessarily inclusive, of how Skyrim railroads players into quests. So let us begin.

 

Main Quest: You don't have a choice in an unmodded game. This quest is initiated as soon as you exit the cave from Helgen. Avoiding the Main Quest is already possible. There are various alternate start mods available, and any of them will cut out the Main Quest. With some you'll have to use the console to initiate the Main Quest if you decide to do it at a later time. I'd like to see more choice in this. Perhaps a randomly-chosen starting location would be interesting. The ability to start as a hunter (with the hunting camp randomly chosen) might appeal to many players. The choice to begin the game right outside any of the cities or towns would be good.

 

Main Quest - Civil War: Don't hang around Ralof or Hadvar after you exit Helgen. If you follow either of them to Riverwood they'll mention that you should join the Stormcloaks (Ralof) or Legion (Hadvar). If you meet them later on in Riverwood, even days later, after avoiding them at the beginning, you'll still get that line. It will automatically put in your journal to join their factions, and you can even have the oddity of having both of them in your journal at the same time. I'd prefer to see the offending monologue option completely removed from both of these people. Alternately, a script could intervene and give the player the option to refuse to allow the quest to start or to accept it. Without mods your only option is to flee the instant you exit Helgen and put as much space between you and Ralof/Hadvar as you can. Once you're out of earshot they go on to Riverwood without you and the offending monologue never happens unless you approach them later on. You still can't avoid the main quest. "Dragon Rising" is scripted to be added to your journal a few moments after you exit Helgen whether you hang around to listen to Ralof of Hadvar or not.

 

Civil War: The standard greeting for an Imperial soldier on the road or in an Imperial Camp will force the "Join the Imperial Legion" quest on you. Similarly with Stormcloak soldiers and the "Join the Stormcloak Rebellion" quest. If you speak with a Stormcloak prisoner in an Imperial escort the same thing will happen. I think it happens if you speak with a prisoner of a Thalmor escort, as well. See my possible solutions immediately above. Your options, here, are to avoid these people completely, meaning never get within the distance at which greetings are initiated (150 units in an unmodded game) or to use the console to reduce interaction distance, and to avoid speaking to escorted prisoners. The console command is "SetGameSetting fAIMinGreetingDistance nnn", where "nnn" is a number. Set it to "0" (zero) to prevent any greetings by anyone. This also solves other railroading situations where all you do is get greeted and it forces a journal entry (such as with the Dark Brotherhood). You'll have to do this every time you restart your game.

 

Main Quest - Thieves Guild: You are sent to talk to Brynjolf regarding the location of Esbern. I've never gone to Brynjolf for this after my first playthrough, because I know where Esbern can be found in the Ratway and I know you can get there without joining the Thieves Guild. See "Thieves Guild", below for more.

 

Main Quest - College of Winterhold: You are sent to the College to investigate the location of the Elder Scroll. You will have to join the College before the door is unlocked. It's not necessary, of course. Your contact there will direct you to Septimus Signus, and if you know where he's located you can go right there, instead (see "Discerning the Transmundane", below).

 

Thieves Guild: When you get near the market area in Riften during business hours, Brynjolf will approach you and force you into a conversation. You don't have any choice in this matter and you'll get stuck with a journal entry to listen to his scheme. Follow through with that and you're on your way to becoming a member of the Thieves Guild. My solution to this is to simply disable Brynjolf in the game. The console commands for this are "prid 20545", followed by "disable", or you can just wait until you can get a bead on him, click on him while in console mode and then type disable. You can always re-enable him if you decide that you later want to join the Thieves Guild. Better would be to mod Brynjolf so that the quest to listen to his scheme is never forced into your journal, leaving you with the option to actually ask him about it later, if you're interested. Note that I'm not sure what happens to a disabled Brynjolf should the market area respawn (or even if it does). If the game cleans up and he's deleted this would make it impossible, except through the console, to get him back.

 

Bard's College: You can either go directly to the college in Solitude and speak with Viarmo, who will force you into a conversaton with him as soon as you enter the place, or you can get the quest "Investigate the Bard's College" by speaking with any bard in Skyrim. This is even associated with a bug in which you can get the investigation quest after you've completed the Bard's College quest-line and it's forever stuck in your journal. Solution -- don't go into the college and don't speak with any of the bards about what they do. Better would be a choice to decline having the journal entry in the first place. There are three miscellaneous quests associated with the college. These are to retrieve Finn's Lute, Pantea's Flute, and Rjorn's Drum. If you happen to find any of these before you get those quests do NOT pick them up. Doing so can bug the quests and make them uncompletable, and the items are quest items and cannot be removed from your inventory except by using the console. Neither do you get a clue as to what they are and where you have to take them. The best solution would be for these items to not even spawn in the game until their respective quests are active.

 

College of Winterhold: If you approach the college you will be stopped by Faralda who will demand that you demonstrate a particular (chosen randomly from a list) spell. Doing so will automatically initiate the quest-line. Asking anyone who gives you a dialog option to learn about magic will initiate the "Visit the College of Winterhold" quest, which will also put you into interaction with Faralda. There is an option to tell her that you just want to see what the college looks like. I've never chosen that so I don't know what effect that might have on the "Visit the College of Winterhold" quest, or whether it actually allows you to back out of the subsequent quest "First Lessons".

 

Dark Brotherhood: The only rumor you'll receive from an innkeeper until you've gotten the one about the Aretino boy is the one about the Aretino boy. Another way is by being greeted by gurads, especially those in Windhelm. The third way is by approaching the Aretino residence in Windhelm and overhearing a conversation between a boy and lady. A fourth way is by getting forced into a conversation with Maul, who is standing near the main gate to Riften (the only one you can go through until you've been in the city, already), and then talking to him about the Dark Brotherhood. Or you can go to Honorhall Orphanage in Riften and speak to the orphans. All of these will initate the quest to speak to Aventus Aretino in Windhelm. Doing so will initiate the quest "Innocence Lost" which will require you to murder Grelod the Kind, the headmistress at the orphanage, in cold blood. This will, in turn, initiate the quest "With Friends Like These" which will give you opportunity to join or destroy the Dark Brotherhood.

 

Stones of Barenziah - Thieves Guild: These are the "Unusual Gems you encounter in various places in the game). Picking one of these up initiates a quest to find an appraiser. The only person who can identify them is Vex of the Thieves Guild and she won't talk to you about them until you're a member in good standing with the Guild. The stones are quest items, so you can't drop them. They don't stack in your inventory so you can wind up with 24 of these, each taking up a separate line in your inventory list.

 

Quest-Locked Words of Power: Disarm, located in Snow Veil Sanctum, requires membership in the Thieves Guild. Fire Breath, located in Dustman's Cairn, requires membership in the Companions. Ice Form, located in Saarthal, requires membership in the College of Winterhold. Slow Time, located in Korvanjund and Labyrinthian, requires membership in the College of Winterhold. Storm Call, located in Skuldafn Temple, requires advancing the Main Quest. Call Dragon (all three words) requires advancing the Main Quest. Clear Skies (all three words) requires advancing the Main Quest. Dragonrend (all three words) requires advancing the Main Quest. I don't play Dawnguard, so I can't speak for any Words of Power added by that DLC.

 

The Legend of Red Eagle: You get this quest by reading the book "The Legend of Red Eagle". This is not, in itself, a bad thing, except that the book's script is bugged so that you can get the quest every time you read this book even if you've already completed it. However, the quest is a difficult one at low levels and smart players aren't going to tackle it until they're capable of taking on a pack of Forsworn. Presently the only way to avoid the quest is to refuse to read the book. I don't remember, actually, but I think just picking it up initiates the quest. I could be wrong on that. I just don't bother even picking it up when I see it on a bookshelf. The script needs to be redone so that it (a) doesn't result in an infinitely-repeatable quest and (b) gives the player the option to either refuse the quest or to accept it. You would be able to re-read the book at any later time to get the choice to accept it.

 

Following is all the Daedric quests and the ways I know of that they are initiated. I'm including these as part of the railroading concept because I know that many people actually role-play in this game and don't want to be associated with the Daedra in any way. In some of these instances you don't even know what you're getting into before its too late and you're up to your waist in ... well, you get the picture.

 

The Black Star (Azura): Talking to Aranea Lenith at the Shrine of Azura will automatically start this quest. Solution -- don't talk to her.

 

Boethiah's Calling (Boethia): You will be forced into this quest by reading the book "Boethiah's Proving" or by being forced into conversation by the Priestess of Boethiah when you approach the shrine. The book is available in various places once the player reaches level 30. Sometime after that point the player will be attacked by a Boethiah Cultist. Upon killing him you will get a journal entry to "Investigate the Boethiah Cultist", and the book will be found on him. I suspect this entire quest-line is covertly started as soon as you reach level 30. The solution to this is probably quite simple. The books need to be modded so that the player is given a warning about the nature of the quest they're associated with and then given the option to accept or decline the quest. Without mods, just don't read the books and don't talk to the priestess.

 

A Daedra's Best Friend (Clavicus Vile): Once you reach level 10 approaching Falkreath (either gate) will cause a forced conversation with a guard, there. This will initiate this quest and direct you to speak with Lod. If you somehow get into Falkreath without being approached by a guard to speak with Lod, then he will initiate the quest. Without modding, your options are limited to getting into Falkreath without interacting with the guards (see "Civil War", above) and not speaking with Lod. A better solution would be for the guards to suggest that you speak with Lod, but when you do you can turn down his request to check on the dog he's interested in that has been spotted on the road. I've never done this, so I don't know what that option accomplishes. If it keeps a journal entry open to speak with him, then this is something that needs to be fixed.

 

Discerning the Transmundane (Hermaeus Mora) - Main Quest: The Main Quest stage, "Elder Knowledge" requires you to obtain the Elder Scroll. The only person who knows where it is happens to be Septimus Signus. Speaking to him will initiate this quest, since his need to have a lexicon inscribed is tied to the delivery of the Elder Scroll. For role-play purists who have to avoid interaction with Daedra, this brings the Main Quest to a grinding halt. Speaking with Hermaeus Mora gives you the opportunity (I think) to turn him down, but I've never used that option, myself, so I don't know if has any other effect than the option in which you willingly serve him. I know that similar options for some of the other Daedra do not affect the advancement of their quests in any way.

 

Ill Met By Moonlight (Hircine): This quest is initiated by speaking to Mathies Caerellia in Falkreath. Your journal will direct you to speak to Sinding who is being held prisoner in the barracks. Without mods, your only option is to not speak with Mathies.

 

The Cursed Tribe (Malacath): Speaking to Atub at the Orc stronghold Largashbur will initiate this quest. If you don't want to do this quest, then avoid Largashbur and/or don't speak with Atub.

 

Pieces of the Past (Mehrunes Dagon): Sometime after you reach level 20 (I've heard it depends upon you having retrieved at least one Daedric artifact, but I can't verify this) you will be handed a letter by a courier telling you about a new museum opening up in Dawnstar. Alternately, this quest can be initiated merely by overhearing conversation by someone in Dawnstar regarding the museum. A third way, which I've not verified but I understand is possible, is to get a rumor from the innkeeper in Riften about it. I really hate it when the game makes you accept things you don't want, but I've always done this quest just to get to the nice stuff inside the Shrine to Mehrunes Dagon. You do have the option to turn down Mehrunes Dagon's command to kill Silus Vesuius and not get Mehrunes Razor, so this quest is already structured to allow you to back out honorably.

 

The Whispering Door (Mephala): Sometime after you reach level 20 you will hear a rumor at the Bannered Mare in Whiterun regarding one of his children and you'll be directed to speak with Jarl Balgruuf, thus initiating this quest. I've only done this once, since the artificat you're rewarded with is both bugged and objectionable (to me). I don't even remember if you can back out of the quest, once you've started it.

 

The Break of Dawn (Meridia): After you reach level 12 you may find Meridia's Beacon in any of a number of chests in Skyrim. This will initiate the quest. So will visiting the Shrine to Meridia. If you don't want to do the quest, then do NOT pick up Meridia's Beacon and do NOT approach the Meridia's shrine.

 

The House of Horrors (Molag Bal): There is an Abandoned House in Markarth. A Vigilant of Stendarr standing outside force you into a conversation. If you agree to help him this ititiates the quest. Note that you will have to murder two people in order to complete this quest, and you will be unable to exit the house once you enter it without murdering the Vigilant. In an unmodded game the only thing you can do is to avoid helping the Vigilant. Just talking to him doesn't initiate the quest. This is one of the more problematical quests for someone playing a good character and a mod that avoids the evil acts you're forced to do migt be very difficult to implement because of the way the quest is set up except for one solution. I'd suggest making sure that the door to the house remains unlocked. The instant you exit it, the quest is logged as failed and you're home-free.

 

The Taste of Death (Namira): You'll get a rumor from Kleppr at the Silver-Blood Inn in Markarth that will direct you to speak with Brother Varulus, or you can just speak with him without getting that rumor. Either way, this initiates the quest. Fortunately, you have the option to kill Eola instead of Brother Verulus in Reachcliff Cave. This has an unfortunate side effect, though, since one of the people gathered there is Banning. If you want to purchase Vigilance (the dog) you have to purchase him from Banning. Vigilance is actually a mercenary, which is why you have to puchase him, again, every time you dismiss him and then want as a follwer, again. You'll have to kill Banning and all the other feasters in the cave because they'll go aggro on you the instant you attack Eola. This makes Vigilance unavailable, except by using the console command to resurrect Banning. The best solution, I think, is to rework Vigilance so that he becomes a permanant follower and allow Cedran, Banning's assistant at the stables, to sell him.

 

The Only Cure (Peryite): You can get this quest by interacting with the random wandering "Afflicted" you'll meet along the roads of Skyrim after you reach level 12. You can also get it by speaking directly with Kesh at the Shrine to Peryite. If you don't want to do the quest, then avoid talking to Afflicted and don't approach the shrine.

 

A Night to Remember: You'll meet Sam Guevenne at a random tavern. He'll challenge you to a drinking contest. If you accept his challenge this initiates the quest. I've never turned him down, so I don't know if a log entry gets forced into your journal if you do so.

 

The Mind of Madness (Sheogorath): There's an odd fellow who you'll probably meet the first time in you're in the vicinity of the Bard's College in Solitude. His name is Dervenin and he's ranting to himself. Speak to him and this initiates the quest. Avoid him and you have nothing to worry about.

 

Waking Nightmare (Vaermina): Speak with Erandur in the Windpeak Inn in Dawnstar and this will initiate the quest. You'll hear various comments about nightmares and people not getting sleep throughout the city, but these random snippets don't force the quest upon you. Don't talk to Erandur if you don't want to do this quest.

 

 

Have I left anything out? Yes, I'm sure I have, but this first post is already too long, so I won't make it any longer. I'm equally sure other people will have their own examples, and that's what this topic is for -- free discussion on the railroading issue and ways to fix things or avoid the problems, altogether.

[sinnerman69]

two thing's I do when I want to avoid a situation, first the courier I open up console and disable him when I'm not ready for his quests, the college of winterhold you don't have to join to get the elder scroll, you can tcl your way throw the gate or use a mod that teleports you behind the gate and there are such mods!..

 

Owe and if I don't want to get on the bad side of a faction I go the other way if there hostile coming at me, a battle you may of been earlier on a arrow might of grazed someone from there faction during that battle and there just seeking you out for reparation for that earlier on!..

 

if your on the road and avoid fast travel and you pass a group of stormcloaks or imperials even running by them they suggest joining and the quest to join or start the quest well set in your misc menu

 

The Mind of Madness (Sheogorath): is a very fun quest and easy to do

 

You only need to know clear skies and Dragonrend Shout to kill Alduin , and call dragon

Edited August 31, 2012 by sinnerman69

[Moraevik]

Sinnerman, I'm looking for non-console methods to solve these problems. In other words, to make the solutions to the problems part of the game, rather than something that's really outside the game. In some cases you have no choice, such as disabling Brynjolf so you can do business in Riften without him hounding you. And I'm well aware that you can tcl past the gate to get into the mage's college. I've done that on one occasion to finish collecting all the Stones of Barenziah when I didn't want to join the college. Again, though, that's a kludge for a trick that is angled at forcing you to join the college. If you're not a mage-type there's really no other reason to go into the college.

 

Yes, I listed the problem with encountering Stormcloak or Imperial patrols on the road. I just avoid them by giving them wide berth, or I use the console to disable greetings, since the monologue that initiates either branch of the Civil War quest-line is a greeting and not an actual dialog choice you have to make during a conversation. I'm sure the developers made it that way so you couldn't avoid the Civil War quest by just not talking about it, but the console fix is a pretty simple one. I have it in a batch file "greet0.txt" to set the greeting distance to zero. It disables all greetings, but by the time you've heard them a hundred times or so they start to get ... well, repetitive.

 

I don't mind doing some of the Daedric quests even when I'm playing a good character. I love Sheogorath. He has more personality and is better voice-acted than any other NPC in the game. I loved him in Oblivion, too, and I was delighted they brought him back with the same voice actor for Skyrim. However, there are some hard core role-players on this site who have expressed the desire to be able to play through the game with no contact at all with any of the Daedra. This is why I included their quests as "railroading", since some of them are blatantly forced upon the player.

 

The "advanced" shouts like Clear Skies, Dragonrend, and Call Dragon (or whatever it's referred to as) are unnecessary if you don't enable any part of the main quest or if you don't finish "Dragon Rising". On the other hand, I'd love to be able to get Dragonrend without being involved in the Blade's shenanigans. I think that some way to enable just the quests related to the Greybeards, and skip the stuff people don't like about the Main Quest (such as that ridiculous peace conference) would be a wonderful addition to the game. In fact, I'm stuck right now with trying to get Ulfric to talk to me about it, and all he wants to do is to recruit me into the Stormcloaks. So far nothing I've tried to fix this long-known bug has worked. There are parts of quests that are severely broken, like in this case, and I'm sure a lot of people wouldn't miss them if those quests never happened.

[sinnerman69]

But you need learn call dragon in order call Odahviing to get to Skuldafn Temple the portal to Sovngarde and the call dragon information was in the skyhaven temple library or wall!..

 

 

Also you do realize skyrim takes place during medieval times and is 80% evil and bad situations in it's story line!..

 

All these railroad situations is just how the creators decided would best link quests together and entangle them, forcing you to make decisions :thumbsup:

 

All the Daedric Artifacts are to give you full access to Daedric smith perk I believe and those Daedric weapons and armor are pretty cool

 

 

heck even the kids in the game are evil, Aventus Aretino wants you to kill Grelod the Kind and when you do all the kids in the Honorhall Orphanage cheer that shes dead :biggrin:

Edited August 31, 2012 by sinnerman69

[RileyEvan]

I can understand some of the issues if people don't want to do certain necessary quests that the developers put in their way. But several of these you mention, you could just as easily ignore. Brynof in the market place doesn't force you to join the Thieves' Guild. No Stormcloak or Legion soldier forces you to join a side. The thing I keep hearing that I don't understand is when people whine about uncleared journal entries. Really? If a civil war were taking place right now, do you think you wouldn't be aware of it? Do you think you wouldn't hear about it every day? Ever been to a city and been accosted by some street urchin? People offer you stuff all the time in real life and you either accept or you don't. You listen or you ignore them. Most people are aware of things around them that they aren't personally interested in. Doesn't trying to pretend you never heard of the civil war, the thieves' guild, or the mages' college destroy even the illusion of immersion?

[Moraevik]

(sinnerman69): You're missing the point, completely. Not everyone is a completionist. I've played this game several times without ever touching the Main Quest. If you don't do the Main Quest you don't need Call Dragon, and you won't be getting into Sky Haven Temple or Skulldafn, anyway. Nirn is not Earth. Don't confuse the two when you talk about the Medieval time period. And, no, I don't agree that the entanglement forces the player to make decisions. More often than not it removes all the decision-making because it forces you to accept a quest which is linear with no options that actually affect the outcome. You play it from beginning to end as a scripted character in a story that's already been written. As for the Daedric artifacts, a lot of us have grown past the stage where we think we need to acquire all the achievements. In fact, I don't get any of them because I play off-line and Steam has no clue what I'm doing. As far as I'm concerned the quest to get all those achievements is something to kids busy playing the game. I have better things to do in Skyrim than try to be everthing that it's possible to be in it. Limitations are what makes the game interesting to veteran players.

 

(RileyEvan): No, Brynjolf doesn't force you to join the Thieves Guild and I never said he did. What he does is force the introductory quest on you and it remains in your journal forever if you don't go along with his scheme, AND he keeps hounding you about it until you accept his offer to begin your walk down the path to the Dark Side. Same with Stormcloak and Legion soldiers. It's MY flipping journal. If I don't want to be involved in the Civil War why in the heck would I write in my own journal notes to join the Imperial Legion or the Stormcloak Rebellion? Even more curiously, why would I write BOTH of them in my journal? And you know what? You have to have both of those in your journal in order to get Ulfric and Tullius to go the stupid peace conference! It's not about destroying the illusion of immersion by ignoring this stuff. Sure I'm aware of these things. I'm just not interested in reminding myself about them.

 

 

Now, everyone. Criticizing the intent of this topic is off-topic. If you approve of railroading then start your own topic to discuss that. This one is about dealing with the railroading and NOT accepting what the developers are trying to shove down our throats, so please keep comments and discussions to that. There's plenty of room in the world for both points of view -- just not in this particular thread. This thread is resource for players who are feeling railroaded and for me, or some other modder, to use as a reference for fixing these things. Mixing in contrary points of view accomplishes nothing productive, here, and just makes it more difficult for the people who read this thread to find useful information. Everyone is welcome to his own opinions, and I respect the right of other people to disagree with me, but in turn please respect the purpose of this thread and keep it on-topic.

[sinnerman69]

Skyrim gives you no choice but to be a completionist and only a group of talented modders could fix the so called Derailing the Railroads of Skyrim you speak of and no one group of modders well ever come together to make a good alternative and avoid 80% of the game, this isn't super mario world or mario kart this is a medieval game with evil terrible thing's happening in it all the time!..

 

I don't hear the smurfs theme song in the back ground when I play and mostly intense omen latin Choir like music :thumbsup:

Edited August 31, 2012 by sinnerman69

[Moraevik]

We know that Bethesda intended Skyrim for completionist players, but you don't have to cow to this strong-hand effort by developers to get involved in every quest. This is an attempt by Bethesda to cater to the lowest common denominator of the gaming community, which I suspect has a cumulative IQ barely above room temperature, and needs to be led around the game by the hand. Nobody said anyone wants to avoid 80% of the game. Having choice is not exercising avoidance. Maybe I want to get involved in the Dark Brotherhood, but I'd prefer not to have my journal sullied with an entry to talk to the Aretino boy because the first rumor you can get from any innkeeper is that one. Maybe I'd like to hear some other rumors, and get that one behind me. I know about the kid. I can go to Windhelm, find him, and talk to him at my leisure when/if I'm ready to deal with the DB quest-line. This is what I mean by "choice". As it is, many of these quests are rammed down our throats, cluttering our journals with unnecessary and wanted verbage because they are things those of us who actually do role-play in this game would never do, and would never log into our journals in the first place.

 

I'm not a completionist and have many hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of Skyrim. So have a lot of other players, all without feeling that its necessary to do the Main Quest, every Daedric quest, and every guild quest. If you're one of the many completionist players, then bully for you. Have fun playing the game your way and let the rest of us discuss how we can have fun playing it our way. There's room for both perspectives in this world and neither is more valid than the other. As I said, though, this thread is NOT for berating this thread. Just because you don't like the idea I'm presenting, here, doesn't mean you need to jump in and take up space which is useless to the people who agree with me on these issues. This topic is for discussion of those issues AS issues and not as the non-issues you seem to think they are. Neither is it for debate about the validity of railroading in a game or whether or not modders can or will address the points I've made. In fact, there are already a number of mods which attempt to address some of them.

 

Make your own thread to present your ideas. We already know them and the people who disagree with you are going to find this thread informative and helpful. Your comments are neither and will only serve to derail this topic and render it useless to the people who seriously want to see these issues addressed. If you have nothing positive to add, relative to the purpose of this topic, then please don't add anything.

[Moraevik]

Edit -- double post Edited August 31, 2012 by Moraevik

[kryptopyr]

What is your primary goal? To avoid avoid hearing the comments, greetings, and rumors that start these quests? Or just to avoid having these encounters trigger journal entries? These would require two different solutions.

 

I like playing a particular type of character, so often there are quests that I avoid doing with a certain character (for example, I tend to pick only one or two factions to join with any given character and avoid the others, and there are several of the daedric quests I've yet to complete just because I haven't created a character that is evil enough to do them). However, all the quests that I'm ignoring do have a tendancy to pile up in my journal, which is something that I find mildly annoying. I don't mind being approached with offers and information; I feel this is part of the world. I wish there were simply a way to delete entries from your journal, but as far as I know, no one's managed to directly mod the journal interface, and it's definitely well beyond my modding knowledge.

 

In some of the cases you mention, it isn't very difficult to mod the quests so that they don't trigger the journal entries. Often this just requires finding the offending dialogue in the CK and deleting a single line of script. While the quest has technically started, you won't see anything in your journal about it. This is what I did for the Dark Brotherhood quest. You still hear the rumors, but you don't get any journal entries. It's up to you whether you want to pursue the information and track down Aventus...once you progress to the next step of the quest, the journal entries and quest markers will appear as they normally would. The mod I did for Brynjolf (Thieves Guild Requirements) was a bit more complicated, but not by much. I also have a fix for the Stones of Barenziah that is nearly complete. It doesn't block the journal entry, but it gives you another option for selling the gems (which then removes the journal entry) without needing to go through the Thieves Guild.