Scripts in Saves

[Elizinator]

so i keep hearing that skyrim saves scripts in save files. and im getting a lot of script errors, sometimes caused by the load looking for scripts that 1) arent in the scripts folder any more, and 2) arent being invoked by a mod, those mods having been uninstalled.

 

so im asking: is there a way to clean the save of these erroneous scripts? how do i get it to STOP looking?

[IsharaMeradin]

You cannot. Once data is in a save it remains there. All the 'clean saving' tricks in the world will not help. Clean saving tricks are for causing cells to respawn and thus refresh any creatures/objects within with fresh data not dependent upon what was previously installed (plugin record wise).

 

The only way to 'purge' your save of unnecessary script data is to have the mod author develop a reversal script which in essence causes the object/creature to return to normal behavior. However, removing that plugin/script combination will result in a similar error.

 

An example of what I'm talking about is that I have a mod which adds automatic storage abilities to a bag of holding. I also had an option which provided automatic crafting access at all of the games default crafting stations. Unknown to me, the script I borrowed and modified was blocking the normal activation of the crafting stations. When it was uninstalled any crafting station previously visited while the script had been active would no longer work. To 'purge' the save file of having these stations blocked, I made a simple script with the same name that told the stations to be accessible again. So long as the player has that script active it would refresh each station they approached and restore the appropriate behavior. If the 'fix' script is removed, there may still be errors produced, but the objects themselves have the new status stored of being accessible as normal rather than blocked.

 

Also note that not all errors are harmful. Some active and present scripts will throw errors because the situation isn't correct yet for them to function. This is true of even the unmodified game.

[Elizinator]

this sounds like severe incompetence on bethesda's part. but i thank you for the helpful answer.

[IsharaMeradin]

I wouldn't call it severe incompetence on Bethesda's part. The data needs to be there in the saves else quests which are controlled by scripts would not be able to progress. Its not that the script itself is present, but that certain data gets stored for later retrieval. Its all harmless if the player maintains the same setup whether it be modded or stock throughout their entire character run. The problem comes from installing and uninstalling mods. While it's typically safe to do so for pure esp or texture type mods. Mods that are script based or contain scripts will undoubtedly leave behind something in the save games that will later cause an issue of some type.

[Aricole]

@ Ishar: Thank you for the very clear explanation of scripts in saves. It explained the list of 'errors' for things that hadn't happened yet in-game. Is there a log somewhere that tells/hints at what causes a CTD?

[IsharaMeradin]

@Aricole -- No. None that I know of. Closest you can get is the papyrus log and as I've said elsewhere the last shown record may not always be the culprit.

 

Could check your scheduled tasks. If you got programs set to auto-update, those can kill a game fast when they decide to make their check. If your crashes are always on or about the same minute into any given hour and the location of the crash isn't the same, chances are its more likely a 3rd party program that is trying to do a scheduled task.

[gsmanners]

I wouldn't call it severe incompetence on Bethesda's part. The data needs to be there in the saves else quests which are controlled by scripts would not be able to progress. Its not that the script itself is present, but that certain data gets stored for later retrieval. Its all harmless if the player maintains the same setup whether it be modded or stock throughout their entire character run. The problem comes from installing and uninstalling mods. While it's typically safe to do so for pure esp or texture type mods. Mods that are script based or contain scripts will undoubtedly leave behind something in the save games that will later cause an issue of some type.

 

If we disregard the fact that mods exist, it does point out a weakness in the design. The game is designed to be patched and extensible (DLCs), so it would follow that they should have designed save game data to maintain a proper coherence and privacy. This immutable piling of "data" is surely not an agile approach to design, and I imagine it makes maintaining the save game specification exponentially more difficult. These specs are extremely important to the smooth operation of the game, so I'm not sure what you'd call that. Clumsiness? Ignorance?

 

Push comes to shove, they could have used the Sims 2 approach (fully reset the cells affected), and that would have been preferable to leaving junk references perpetually in the save game to eternally give you problems just because the user likes to mix and match their plugins.