WTH Nexus?

[Moksha8088]

Was about to post an image on the quest mod Outlaws and Revolutionaries, when I noticed that the prolific mod author Thuggysmurf had withdrawn the mod from the Nexus.

 

The reason Thuggysmurf gave was regarding some action and subsequent comments by one of the Nexus Moderators.

 

Yikes!!! Large, stable quest mods are one of the best things Nexus has to offer. These particular mods extend the shelf life of the games well beyond their normal expiration date. That in turn draws people to the Nexus. Thuggysmurf is one of the most prolific quest mod authors, with this mod on Skyrim SE and many more on Fallout 4, with even another one coming in August.

 

Please do all that is possible to retain these authors that bring enjoyment to the game and extra clicks for the Nexus. Thank you.

[Dark0ne]

To clarify, Thuggysmurf's reason mentions "changes" made to his page by a moderator. However, there was only one change made to his page and that was to mark the file as adult-only, as the mod contains nudity.

 

The adult content can be found in the "/Textures/Clutter/Books/ElisifCalendar/" folder. It is considered NSFW as per our Adult Content Guidelines.

 

It is absolutely imperative that all files are marked as adult-only content appropriately both for user experience reasons and legal reasons. In these situations, we most definitely do not wait to hear back from a mod author before updating a page to properly classify the content within.

 

Upon making this change, the moderator sent a full-page notification to Thuggysmurf (basically, something that you cannot miss the next time you visit Nexus Mods) to inform him of this change. The notification read:

 

Your file "Outlaws and Revolutionaries - Quest Mod Plus" (https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/10991) has been marked as adult due to containing sexualised content.

 

 

I have not seen the PM conversation, but I can tell you that no matter what Thuggysmurf had to say, the content within that folder is considered adult-only content as per our Terms of Service and there wouldn't be a way of talking around that or changing our minds on it, nor was the moderator wrong in his actions.

 

It is unfortunate that Thuggysmurf has taken offence at this. It's absolutely imperative that we mark content properly as soon as we discover it for legal reasons.

[Thuggysmurf]

Hi Dark0ne. Thank you for your attention to the matter. I don't disagree with anything you've stated above, but at the same time, you're not stating all the facts, and I'm sure that's because you simply haven't been provided with the facts, and that once you are operating with all the facts, you will understand why this is a problem.

 

I tried to resolve this privately with the moderator via PM, but when a moderator becomes condescending and then makes a veiled threat at a mod author, intentional or not, the conversation via Nexus platforms must necessarily end. The mod author cannot go further, as one party has the power to ban, and the other does not.

 

I've invited the moderator in question to address the issue on the Project Valkyrie Discord (where I can't get banned for asking uncomfortable questions), and I'd love your input as well. I'm not providing a link here, as I'm sure you can find it, after which point you're welcome to provide the link or not.

 

You have created something magnificent with Nexus. Massive respect to you. The actions the moderator took and the words they used are not representative of you, Nexus mods, or the wonderful work the moderators here do in general, and I don't think it's even representative of that moderator either, and to be clear, they did apologize for the words they used.

 

But there's a serious lapse of consistency going on. It needs to be addressed, and I leave it to you on how to address it. Read what I wrote on Discord in the "Nexus-Adult-Content" thread (fair warning, you won't like it, it exposes a serious/show-stopping lapse in moderation consistency), and at that point, the ball is in your court. We can take the Discord discussion down, make it private, or whatever, but let's get this resolved so that no one can accuse Nexus of being inconsistent or arbitrary in it's moderation efforts going forward. I'm 100% on your side here, and want consistency just like you.

[Dark0ne]

I don't really have any wish to go trawling through a Discord server (which you aren't even linking, for some reason?) to find out your side of things. I have asked the moderator in question to invite me to the PM conversation he had with you so I can review it myself and will update this thread when I have.

[Thuggysmurf]

Nexus moderators have accessed the Discord. What's on there isn't flattering to Nexus so I didn't provide the link publicly, but would be happy to PM it to you if you would like. It's your show, of course, but the moderation inconsistencies are laid out on the Discord, not in a Nexus PM, as I can get banned potentially for pointing out those things on a Nexus platform if the moderator doesn't like what I have to say. I trust you're interested in the full picture, whether you choose to obtain the information on Discord first-hand or second-hand via moderators.

[Dark0ne]

Ok, I have read the PM and I can confirm that the moderator in question did absolutely nothing wrong and did things exactly as they were meant to be done. Personally, I cannot understand what you found threatening as I think the moderator handled the situation very calmly, all things considered.

As you've made this rather public, first with your message on your file page when hiding the mod, and now on your Discord, I hope you don't mind if I recap the PM conversation so that it provides clarity for the users who are either interested in this, or who were interested in the mod you've hidden due to something you think, and have said, we have done wrong. Which is an assessment I disagree with.

 

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PM#1: You ask why the adult content tags apply to your file and claim your file does not contain any nudity. You ask the moderator to review the mod files if there are any doubts.

PM#2: The moderator responds with the exact folder that contains the adult content.

PM#3: You respond by saying the images are censored and thus do not constitute nudity.

PM#4: The moderator explains that your censors (which are little more than black dots drawn in MS Paint over the nipple and crotch areas) are not acceptable to avoid being marked as adult-only content

PM#5: You then respond by saying the mod has been out for a year and a half , [the file page] was changed without you first being given a notification, and then for some reason repeat what you asked in PM#1, asking where this content exists when you already received an answer to that question in PM#2.

On the topic of your mod having been out for a year and a half without any action being taken -- we do not review/use/play all the mods that get uploaded to the site. Such a task would simply be impossible considering the volume of files that get uploaded. As such, all moderation action is retrospective and we very strongly rely on users within our community to inform us of infractions. Some files that break our Terms of Service can go years without being noticed by the moderation team because we haven't used the mod and no one in the community has reported it. That doesn't mean it's OK, or that we simply leave a mod alone after a certain amount of time regardless of what it contains or how it is categorised.

PM#6: The moderator is now a lot more specific about what files contain adult-content, providing direct paths to each and every one, rather than just the folder path that was provided in PM#2.

PM#7: This is where it gets a bit confusing for us. You say that this hasn't cleared things up for you and ask, again, what files led to the mod being marked for nudity and skimpy outfits, despite the previous PM providing the exact file locations of every single one of the incriminating files that contains nudity and skimpy outfits. You ask what other changes have been made to your mod page. You finish by stating you would like to remove the skimpy outfit and nudity tags.

PM#8: Explains that the moderator has already provided you with the files in question and once again affirms they contain nudity and/or skimpy outfits. He also informed you no other changes were made to your file pages.

PM#9: You ask where in our ToS contains a definition of nudity or skimpy which would fit those files. You then go on to explain, basically, where I think all the confusion has come from. You seemingly have not (or had not, at the time) actually read our ToS or Adult Content Guidelines and thus, do not understand why it is being marked as such, instead talking about "western civilisations" definitions of nudity and skimpy. While black dots over nipples and crotches might be a judgement call on nudity (one we make, and state openly), I definitely think we can put the "clothes" being worn, in what pictures that actually contain clothing at all, under "skimpy". The clothes in the pictures are bondage clothing. To remove all doubt -- bondage clothing, certainly of the type in those pictures, is most definitely considered "skimpy".

To clarify, the NSFW/Adult Content Guidelines are linked to during the file uploading process and our Terms of Service are linked to and available on every page of the site and forums.

PM#10: The moderator explains again that we do not accept small dots as proper coverage and that your minimal censoring isn't good enough to bypass being considered non-adult on Nexus Mods. At this point he also links to our Adult Content Guidelines and provides you with the picture shown on that page which fully shows what we do and do not accept to avoid being considered an adult-only mod. The moderator also explains that most of the outfits on show are bondage outfits and that they would be considered skimpy (frankly, I'm not sure how you could argue that they aren't!?).

In this PM, the 5th PM this moderator has had to send on a topic which would normally be fairly routine, the moderator states "You are making me repeat myself quite a lot here, so I suggest you read my posts carefully before any eventual response. Again, I hope this clears it up. If not, do not hesitate to ask for more information, and I will do my best to answer."

I assume this is the "threat" you mention? I honestly did not read it as such, and more read it as a moderator who has already sent 5 PMs on the topic and would like you to fully read everything that has been said before responding, as he's already had to repeat himself on several occasions already.

PM#11: You state that it still hasn't been cleared up for you (at this point, I'm honestly unsure how it hasn't been cleared up for you) and then say you feel like you've been threatened and don't feel comfortable continuing the conversation anymore and will just set the mod to hidden for now.

PM#12: The moderator states it was not his intention to threaten you and apologises to you. He also asks what it is that you do not find clear.

PM#13: You state the moderator has all the power in this situation and do not feel it is a neutral playing field. You state you don't know the moderator and have never heard of him before (just an aside, this moderator is one of our longest standing moderators) and state you'd be happy to continue the conversation elsewhere without fear of repercussion.

PM#14: The moderator states he would never abuse his power and he does not feel above or more powerful than anyone else here. He states his credentials as a simple user and author on the site, and that all he wants to do is keep the site safe and good for everyone according to the rules of the site. He explains there is no need to hide the mod and that marking a file as adult simply means users need to have the adult content filter turned on to see it. He assures you that you can discuss the rules with him, freely, and he will try and help however he can.

PM#15: You end the discussion by stating you don't want to continue discussing it on Nexus Mods as only one of you has moderation powers here.

 

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Unless you have had any other interactions with this moderator (which the moderator claims you have not?), I see absolutely nothing wrong with how this situation was handled.

[Dark0ne]

If you feel like my paraphrasing does not do the PM conversation justice then I am perfectly fine if you'd like to release it publicly (or I can?). You don't have to, I'm just saying, you have my permission.

[Thuggysmurf]

I support your right to paraphrase, and again, I appreciate you taking the time to address the matter. I don't know what else to say. I've offered my side of it on Discord, including the crucial information that is not addressed in your post, but it's up to you whether you wish to visit that platform. This is your site, I'm just a guest here, very much appreciate you having me, and don't wish to say anything negative about Nexus here where lots of people can see it. If our roles were reversed, I'd want to be 100% sure I had all the facts, even if they're uncomfortable to hear, where it concerns moderation consistency with respect to adult content and its nefarious step-sibling.

[Dark0ne]

It sounds to me like you're talking about something else entirely now that is unrelated to how your file has been moderated in this case.

 

If your grievances are actually to do with some sort of wider issue you have with how we moderate the site then that's an entirely different subject. In which case, you can contact our Community Managers, Pickysaurus and/or BigBizkit, either directly via PM or via DM on Discord, or via their email, which is [email protected].

 

What I'm concerned with in this post is whether your file, and just your file, was handled inappropriately, or if you were spoken to inappropriately. It's what your hidden file page texts suggests happened, but I have been presented absolutely no facts to the contrary.

 

You are still welcome here, irrespective.

[Thuggysmurf]

Thanks, I've reached out to one of the mods as you suggested. If you would like the Discord examples and conversation taken down at any point, just say the word. I trust the mods have seen the examples by now and can make their own judgements as to whether the information provided has any merit, so I don't know how much good that forum offers going forward unless they'd like to respond there. Once again, thank you for your attention to this and the wonderful site you've built for all of us + have a great weekend.