Is Skyrim a failed state?

[LordSarcasm]

Foreignpolicy.org outline 12 criteria to determine a failed state each with a numeric value of 1 to 10.

 

Demographic pressures include border disputes, control of religious or historical sites, and environmental hazards. Well, forsworn is the one word answer to that first one, Thalmor vs Talos to the second, and dragons to the third (I'm not sure what else the dragons would be in this criterion).

 

The Second Criterion is large numbers of refugees. Well, much of the population of Dunmer fled from Morrowind after the eruption, and are still pouring in according to some dialogue. Not to mention large numbers of farmers who have lost their livelihood to large reptilian disaster factories.

 

The third criterion is vengeance-seeking group grievances based on long-term or recent memories. Well, the Dunmer and Argonians hate eachother. The Forsworn hate the nords and just about everybody else. The Thalmor hate humans in general.

 

The fourth is chronic human flight. It's different from the refugee criterion because it specifically refers to the flight of valuable individuals, including scientists and middle class. Not so much economically in skyrim but definitely in the sciences, in this case magic. Magic is science in the elder scrolls and everybody hates magic. The College of Winterhold has for years been declining in enrollment.

 

The fifth is uneven urban development. It's not widespread but there are some perfect examples. The lower class in Riften live in tiny run down homes built physically underneath the home the homes of the wealthy, along a stagnant miskept canal full of refuse. Then there's the gray quarter in Windhelm and the delapidated construction in some of the lesser holds like Winterhold.

 

The sixth is sharp economic decline. for once on the list I would say that Skyrim wasn't so bad in the respect.

 

The seventh is delegitimization of the government. Basically widespread corruption among the rulers. Both sides of the civil war are guilty of this. Ulfric's war crimes after the War with the Forsworn, and Tullius making citizens completely disappear like guy in the Gray-Mane clan.

 

The eighth is deterioration of public services, like failure to protect citizens and lack of infrastructure. The one part of this that got me in particular is the failure of security services. The bandit population outnumbers the legitimate civilian and military populations, almost combined! I think that one fact, the violent criminals outnumbering the law abiding citizens would indicate a failed state if nothing else.

 

The ninth is violation of human rights. Again Thalmor.

 

The tenth is the abuse of the security apparatus. The best way to explain is a real world example like the S.S. in the Nazi party. What do you know... Thalmor again! To a lesser extent the Penitus Occulatus, whose leader is clearly corrupt.

 

The elventh is factionalized elite. Basically civil war.

 

The final criterion is the level of foreign intervention. Guess who is violating this one again? You guessed it, the Thalmor! And of course the Empire although technically Skyrim was an imperial province, so it isn't exactly "foreign."

 

A couple of these Skyrim didn't score all that high, so on the Failed states index itself it probably wouldn't rank very high. But the high population of violent criminals is almost unheard of in the real world, and the Thalmor are just so crazy evil, trying to wipe humans out of time and memory that Skyrim might very well rank up with Somalia!

[budcat]

I think this is hilarious and I love that you're looking at this way but for brevity's sake I think the best indicator of a failed state is civil war!

 

Skyrim is obviously doomed. Personally, looking at what is happening, I think this is the end of human hegemony in Tamriel and the formerly in charge human races (redguard, imperial, nord) will quickly find themselves overthrown and oppressed by a pan-mer alliance once the Thalmor get sufficiently strong to win over the Orcs. Newly independent Black Marsh will not participate but some Elsweyr khajiit may side with the Thalmor. Morrowind is out for a while, and the Summerset Isles and Valenwood are already allied. The only wild card is the Bretons but High Rock is politically unstable and relatively remote. Recently seceded Hammerfell and war-torn Skyrim will be very weak, and the Empire is already in total decline. If the player helps liberate Skyrim they are in even greater danger.

 

It looks to me like a rebirth of Ayleid fascism, where High Elves will dominate the world.

Edited September 13, 2012 by budcat

[Cthuloot]

As stated by budcat, civil war 9 times out of ten can be considered a failed state. However I don't think Skyrim quite qualifies as one JUST yet. Just for some insight and validation of my points, I"m currently a political science student, so this is my area of expertise... So to speak... Now onto the fun stuff!

 

While the Civil War happening is generally enough to cause a failed state, they are still functional. You have to really look at the government and what they are doing. The Jarl's don't demonstrate the properties of failed state leaders. While there is a significant difference in the wealth of the Jarls, there isn't a large enough gap to say it's a failed state. There are enough middle and upper class people throughout Skyrim to justify the claim that they are NOT a failed state. The government (Jarls and guards) are still doing their jobs and providing what is needed for their people to survive. Jarl Balgruf in Whiterun is a great example of this. He commonly talks about the safety of his people, and even show compassion for them. When you first come to him from Riverwood if you tell him who sent you, he knows who that person is, despite them not even being in his city. This does not demonstrate a quality of a failed state ruler. Usually rulers of failed states are out of touch with their people and their needs. Guards are also still doing their jobs. And (If you stay away from the Thieves Guild quests) are not commonly seen abusing the people of their city. Granted they aren't always the most polite people, but they will fight to protect the civilians and can be heard telling people to get to safety when a threat arises. This again would not be a trait of a failed state.

 

Poverty exists in Skyrim, but it isn't rampant. There are beggars and poor farmers, but not enough to make entire cities feel like slums. Riften and Windlhelm however do seem to have a higher than average poverty rate (In comparison to other cities). This somewhat illustrates a failed state. The guard in Riften are 'corrupt' as well, by example of the guard at the gate who was instructed to collect a (non-existant) visitor's tax from people who looked wealthy (Merchants rather, as said by Brynjolf). Windhelm is also divided into the Gray and Stone Quarters, there is also the fact that the Argonians are not allowed to even live inside the city walls, and are forced to stay at the docks. While this isn't exactly the same as a failed state, it does show that there is a violation of human rights, as well as a deterioration of public service. You can further see the deterioration when you do the Blood on the Ice quest and the guard says they simply don't have the man power or time needed to look into a very serious problem for their people. Also, you can listen to Ulfric in the Palace of Kings, who seems solely focused on the war, while there is a murderer in his town as well as massive segregation. These are arguably traits of a failed state.

 

Skyrim does have a large number of refugees, but I think you misunderstood the definition of that point. While we cannot see other states of Tamriel, we cannot know for sure how many people have fled Skyrim. It is hinted at that many have left, however it's also worth noting that there is a large number of merchants and families coming to Skyrim because of the war. The exact numbers are hard to know, but the feel seems to be that there is a pretty even amount going in and out of Skyrim. Add the trade boats coming in and out of Solitude and Riften, and you can see there is a fairly nice amount of traffic in Skyrim. This does not demonstrate a failed state.

 

As far as urban development goes, there seems to be a pretty well spread distribution of this. I didn't feel like a large portion of Skyrims wealth was all in one area. There does seem to be a higher amount of wealth toward Solitude and the North West parts of Skyrim however. This is however arguably because of Markarth and the Blue Palace. Because the city of Markarth was already 'built' for the most part, not as much money was needed to develop the area. Solitude also housed the High King, and with taxes all coming to Solitdue in that time, this is somewhat understandable. Additionally the trade capital of Skyrim (Whiterun) is in the smack center of Skyrim. This to me seems to be a pretty fair balance of wealth, considering that Windhelm and Riften also seem to have a large amount of business.

 

The Chronic Human Flight condition is also almost negligible. While it is true that the magics are generally frowned upon in Skyrim this is mostly because of the Nord's dislike of it. They value honorable combat above magic. They also fear magic to an extent, due largely because of their suspicions of the College having something to do with Winterhold collapsing into the sea.

 

While the Thalmor do pose a threat to Skyrim this does not demonstrate a failed state necessarily. There is abolition of one of their deities as well as some control over their beliefs and history, the Empire has managed to keep the threat they pose to Skyrim at a minimal level. This can be seen as outside intervention, however Skyrim is a province of the Empire. The Thamlor do not qualify as outside intervention in the sense meant when dealing with failed states. These beliefs were lost due to a treaty with the Empire. Outside intervention that would indicate a failed state would be more along the lines of the Aldmeri Dominion sending food supplies to Skyrim. Since most of Skyrim infrastructure is still working, they can still supply themselves with food. This again does not demonstrate a failed state.

 

Ultimately Skyrim is at best a failing state. When you first begin a new game, they are not a failed state. But they are beginning to show signs that they could become a failed state. Should entire farms be burnt down, certain cities leveled or destroyed, and Jarl's beginning to not care about their people as well as the College relocating, we could then consider Skyrim a failed state.

[Freya1997]

Didn't one of the NPC's mention that the empire sends much needed supplies to Skyrim constantly that'd vanish if it broke free? I certainly recall it being mentioned.

[Cthuloot]

Didn't one of the NPC's mention that the empire sends much needed supplies to Skyrim constantly that'd vanish if it broke free? I certainly recall it being mentioned.

 

You are right, but most farms and mines are still functional. I imagine Skyrim could still support itself. And since they are from the Empire, and Skyrim is a part of the Empire this doesn't really count as foreign aid. It'd be like the US government sending supplies/money to one of the 50 states.

[AnkhAscendant]

<...>Poverty exists in Skyrim, but it isn't rampant. There are beggars and poor farmers, but not enough to make entire cities feel like slums. Riften and Windlhelm however do seem to have a higher than average poverty rate (In comparison to other cities). This somewhat illustrates a failed state. The guard in Riften are 'corrupt' as well, by example of the guard at the gate who was instructed to collect a (non-existant) visitor's tax from people who looked wealthy (Merchants rather, as said by Brynjolf). Windhelm is also divided into the Gray and Stone Quarters, there is also the fact that the Argonians are not allowed to even live inside the city walls, and are forced to stay at the docks. While this isn't exactly the same as a failed state, it does show that there is a violation of human rights, as well as a deterioration of public service. You can further see the deterioration when you do the Blood on the Ice quest and the guard says they simply don't have the man power or time needed to look into a very serious problem for their people. Also, you can listen to Ulfric in the Palace of Kings, who seems solely focused on the war, while there is a murderer in his town as well as massive segregation. These are arguably traits of a failed state.

<...>

 

You forgot to mention that Winterhold is basically a shack town clustered at the foot of the college, too. They haven't even properly been able to clean up from a natural/"natural" disaster that happened, what, 80 years ago? (Also Morthal is a hole in the ground, but I'm ingoring that since they built themselves in a swamp so evidently they like it that way, it's not deterioration from days of glory.)

 

This means that all of the Stormcloak regions are economically and socially unfit - rampant crime and segregation, poverty, crumbling infrastructure. You could suggest that those area felt the need for rebellion because of their slide into decay, but the impression that I got was more that Ulfric either sees nothing wrong with the treatment of the Dunmer and Argonians or outright supports it, Lalia's blind and ignorant of her people, and the Jarl of Winterhold is a stubborn throwback - their cities are the way they are because of their values.

 

The impression I got while reading Promiser's post is that Skyrim is not yet a failed state, but should Ulfric win and his values spread across Skyrim, it would pretty rapidly fail.

[Cthuloot]

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like anybody in the TES games ever clean up or rebuild after crap goes down!

 

And while I didn't directly say it... Yes, the ones that demonstrate the strongest qualities of failed states are under Stormcloak control... Interesting. :whistling:

[Georgiegril]

So, isn't the failed state criteria basically a justification of invasion/assumption of power while clinging to a wisp of morality? So if Skyrim IS a failed state, who would you say should be taking over? The Empire and the Thalmor are already there...or are you using this as justification for the Dovahkin to assume political control? (That would be fun to play, maybe...)

[Enatiomorph]

Skyrim is a failed ES game.

[Cthuloot]

So, isn't the failed state criteria basically a justification of invasion/assumption of power while clinging to a wisp of morality? So if Skyrim IS a failed state, who would you say should be taking over? The Empire and the Thalmor are already there...or are you using this as justification for the Dovahkin to assume political control? (That would be fun to play, maybe...)

 

The criteria is really just a way for countries to feel superior and to give politicians and political science students (yay me!) a way to say 's*** hole places to live' without being politically incorrect.

 

Skyrim's not yet a failed state and had a certain group of people clad in blue not made things worse, it'd be in a much better state than it is currently. On the other hand, had a certain group of individuals clad in red respected Nordic Customs (Ulfric's challenge to Torygg) it would have also been a much better state. Had a certain Jarl not abused a power against the teachers of his mentors, we wouldn't have the red group hunting him like a vampire in vigilant country. I feel like Ulfric using the voice was a pretty clear indicator that Ulfric knew he wouldn't have won in fair combat.