Mods, load orders, so far so good questions and opinion help please and thanks

[mm22005]

Trying to learn on PC, for about a week. (like a full time job) From what I read most problems occur with wrong load order and/or wrong installs. So far I have no problems at all but I only have about 30 mods and going to add more.

 

1st question, whenever possible I manually download and then put the parts into each folder dragging dropping files into data, mesh folder etc. instead of auto from NMM is this wise? So far it has worked for me with no errors.

 

2nd Mods all want the first load spots, the authors will say put this before x and x and x so how do you figure out best way since all cannot be first?

 

Lastly can you look at my load order and tell me if I am doing order properly in the right order? Again it works right now however you may see something I don't and can learn from it and a week from now installing 50 more mods I am just trying to be cautious thanks ahead of time.

 

Example of why I ask is SKE, Ethreon masterplan, homemaker, vanilla extensions and a few others authors will say

put this at top of load order and then place this mod right below but some of these wont go right below and or wont move higher up.

 

The example is homemaker is supposed to go right under ske and so is ethreon and so is vanilla extensions from what I read from authors- creators. Vaniila is supposed to go right under ethreon master and it cannot go that far up it stops from going so far up. homemaker unlocked and street lights are supposed to go directly right under main homemaker mod and they cannot go that far up as well.

 

So question as long as they are close to the top of load order is that fine?

 

[Di3sIrae]

Humm well, i'll try to point some things to you here.

One thing first: Since you are starting now, i would really recommend you trying Vortex or Mod Organizer. I never used Vortex but people like it and seens to be good... Personally i am using MO for a long time and it pays up the time for learning how it works, because it doesn't touch the Main Game folders in any way, so it is much clear to know what you're doing and etc.

But to your questions:

 

1 - Please, don't do it. It will work now, and for some time, but at some point, you won't know what anything is from anymore, and problems will start to appear. Leftovers from mod installations have been cursing players for years because of bad install or faulty managers. Now, no problems, but after some time, you'll be wondering why X mod is not working as it should, why X texture is not showing, etc.

A manager will remember what it installed and uninstall it properly. You probably won't. Of course you can do it, but you're on your own, almost no one will be able to fully help you later.

Some things to note:

A file installed in the Data folder will be read by the game.
If a mod have "Loose" files, it means they are not packed in a ba2 file (like the vanilla files). Loose files will ALWAYS be read and will overwrite anything packed in a ba2. So if you have a mod you installed manually that replaces a newer mod packed in a ba2, you'll never know, because files are lost inside the folders. That's why it is wise to know exactly what you have and a safe way to uninstall them if needed.

2 - The list of plugin, also called Load Order, is really important and you are doing REALLY GOOD CONGRATS FRIEND for reading descriptions and trying to put thing were they should be.
Some info that may help:

What loads first, will always be overwritten by what loads after. That's why FO4 and DLCs are always on the top. The last loaded plugin, the one in the bottom of the list, will win any conflicts.
There is no way to know what is the perfect load order, but by knowing which mods should load after others, this helps.

Plugins can be esm, esp and esl.
ESM are master files, locked to load BEFORE all the others. That's why FO4, dlcs and some mods have this extension, because they shoulod load before others. If you try to move a esm after a esp, it won't let you do it. Or vice versa. Esps won't enter the "VIP" area of the esms. It's special.
ESP are the normal plugin files.
ESL files were introduced as light files. They are loaded just after esm and before esp. Why they are different from esm or esp? You can only have 255 plugins active in your load order. More than that and the game won't load the plugins as it should, and errors will appear. So Beth created the light files that won't count up to 255 anymore, and can coexist with esp and esm. Note that with xEdit you can flag a esp as esm or esl, so some strange things can appear like a esp in the esm area, or someone telling you that it's plugin is a esl but the extension is esp.

 

Another important thing to remember is that there is a concept of Master and servant plugins. When a plugin is made with a dependancy on another, it will now have a Master, be it a esm or esp. Without it's master, the plugin won't load, and the plugin must always load AFTER it's master. You can easily see this on the mod managers when looking at the plugin information. This will usually lock where they can move in the load order too.

 

Going back now to your question, mods does not need to be in a specific place in the load order. A hundred will say "load it at the top". So, how to know which one to load ?
Doing what you did, reading. Understanding what the mod do is essential.
If both mods only adds new things to the game and do not touch any vanilla files, or if they do different things, then it doesn't matter at all. When in doubt, ALWAYS put the one you want to win any conflict below the others, unless description says otherwise (which in most cases it won't have any info about the mods you use).

I'm not sure why you have SKE first place (i never used it), but it would load before all other mods that deals with settlements, so yeah, SKE after the Unofficial patch is ok.
Homemaker could go anywhere in the esm area, as far as i can tell. Master Plan is used as a Master for other plugins only, so loading it near the top would be the idea.
The extensions of homemaker are not to be loaded EXACTLY after homemaker. Like 5, 6, 7. You only need to load them after mods that change something that they do. If you have none, their order doesn't matter, in some way.
Vanilla Extensions is the same case. As far as it is after Master Plan, the order also doesn't matter. And as i already said, it can happen because it is a esp and Master Plan is esm, so they will never really be together.

 

Now what becomes something that you could already start learning, is to deal with conflicts.
Just by reading description you can tell if some mods change same things, but to be sure, you would need to check...
Download xEdit, watch some videos about basics of it, like what colors mean. You'll want to open it after you managed your load order, and open all mods in there and look if some have conflicts. If they have, you just load the one you find most important AFTER or near the bottom. It will always warn about missing master too. xEdit is a good friend of anyone who is modding the game.
After you learn how to create patches things just get better, but you are just starting, so no need to rush. Just remember you can know what is the conflict between mods by checking them with it.

 

 

There is also a tool called LOOT that can help... in some way. For small and simple load orders, it is ok, but once it start to get complex, the best way is manage it yourself. But you can download and run it to see how it manages for you. May be interesting.

I don't know what some mods you have do, so i can't really tell if the order is good or not. I usually group things to make it easier to find and manage, but the best case is having an idea of what everything do so you can manage it better.
Some plugins, like Vivid Fallout, are only to load a ba2 (ba2 can only be loaded by the game if a plugin loads them), and have nothing inside, so their order doesn't matter unless another mod also have a ba2 with same files packed... So you can load it low to be sure. But you won't have other conflicts aside from textures.


Well, whole lot of text that may be usefull or not, there's much more to say, some things we forget, but if you have any questions, send me a pm (because forum doesn't give me any notification), so if i know how to help, i'll be glad to do it.

Good luck :)

[mm22005]

WOW! THANKS! Very informative and explanatory read here. I get it thanks.

[Di3sIrae]

I'm glad it was helpful!
I always write the full posts people don't like to read, but they have lots of information of what i know xD