National Service

[Vagrant0]

Not all parts of the military involve digging trenches and dodging bullets. There are many parts behind the lines that those less suited to fighting could try - being a medic for a year could be an excellent head start into a career in medicine, for example. People could sign up for specific departments and develop IT skills or engineering capabilities if they have prior qualifications and sign up far enough in advance.

Except that all still need to last through bootcamp. I don't know about others, but my psychological state after leaving highschool was one in which I was likely to either shoot myself or the first one to call me a worthless piece of trash as a "motivation" tool. I understand the purpose of the constant physical and verbal onslaught for the first few weeks of basic training as a means of shocking the system and reducing people to mush so that they can be built up into proper soldiers without regard of upbringing, education, ect. But certain personality types don't respond well to this sort of method and either stay as mush until they're so disgusted that they shoot themselves, or until they snap and decide to see just how many others they can take with them in their blaze of glory. Nope, for personalities like that it's best to accept that they're already borderline psychopaths and just start training them to know the difference between ally and enemy, building them up physically, and teach them how to blow off someone's head from a mile away.

 

Having qualifications prior to entering higher education (as per forced conscription) isn't really an option since at best you have most people coming straight from highschool, and most highschools can't even manage to piece together competent vocational programs let alone anything that would qualify for special placement in the military. Nevermind the part about combat medics seeing maybe too much reality to turn them away from anything dealing with blood. Medicine in a hospital is vastly different and far more varied than battlefield firstaid or even working triage.

 

Unfortunately, for any sort of conscription to be practical on any level, the state of a war has to have degraded to a point where they don't have enough feet on the ground to maintain that war. In such a situation, they wouldn't exactly be bringing in new recruits to file paperwork and sit in a safe place unless you had connections to someone high up in military.

[McclaudEagle]

Unfortunately, for any sort of conscription to be practical on any level, the state of a war has to have degraded to a point where they don't have enough feet on the ground to maintain that war. In such a situation, they wouldn't exactly be bringing in new recruits to file paperwork and sit in a safe place unless you had connections to someone high up in military.

 

On the modern battlefield, "boots on the ground" is a pointless and unnecessary tactic, which is especially what's gone wrong in Afghanistan. Most modern Western militaries use technology to the point where having 1000 soldiers in a location is only going to make things a blundering mess. This is the exact reason why I don't see conscription happening unless there's a really big screw up between all the world's major powers, which is also something I don't really see happening.

[Beriallord]

I hate the beast my country has turned into, so I'd never in a million years serve in this country's military. You can refuse being drafted, you will go to jail. I'll serve jail time.

[McclaudEagle]

I hate the beast my country has turned into, so I'd never in a million years serve in this country's military. You can refuse being drafted, you will go to jail. I'll serve jail time.

 

I have pretty much the same view here :P

 

First though, they'd have to try and catch me.

[WarRatsG]

Except that all still need to last through bootcamp. I don't know about others, but my psychological state after leaving highschool was one in which I was likely to either shoot myself or the first one to call me a worthless piece of trash as a "motivation" tool. I understand the purpose of the constant physical and verbal onslaught for the first few weeks of basic training as a means of shocking the system and reducing people to mush so that they can be built up into proper soldiers without regard of upbringing, education, ect. But certain personality types don't respond well to this sort of method and either stay as mush until they're so disgusted that they shoot themselves, or until they snap and decide to see just how many others they can take with them in their blaze of glory. Nope, for personalities like that it's best to accept that they're already borderline psychopaths and just start training them to know the difference between ally and enemy, building them up physically, and teach them how to blow off someone's head from a mile away.

 

I sympathise, I wasn't too happy at that point either. I turned to the TA just because I had nothing else to do for a year while waiting to get back into university - they did break me, but then they fixed me. I mean completely and utterly; when I came out I started dealing with problems in a whole new, far more productive way.

People could be screened before their national service to ensure that they are not at risk of a violent or lethal outburst as a result of the psychological pressure. I should point out that having National Service would not be the real cause of their "blaze of glory" as you put it - it would be the proverbial straw the breaks down a mind ingrained with the desire to strike back.

Switzerland allows people who are unwilling or unable to complete military National Service to complete Alternate National Service, or pay 3% extra income tax until they are 30 years old.

 

 

Having qualifications prior to entering higher education (as per forced conscription) isn't really an option since at best you have most people coming straight from highschool, and most highschools can't even manage to piece together competent vocational programs let alone anything that would qualify for special placement in the military. Nevermind the part about combat medics seeing maybe too much reality to turn them away from anything dealing with blood. Medicine in a hospital is vastly different and far more varied than battlefield firstaid or even working triage.

 

True, some people wanting to go into medicine would not be able to complete a course as an assistant medic, but does that mean the opportunity should be taken away from those who could complete the course, and gain excellent practical experience from it? As for needing qualifications... I joined as a Combat Medical Technician which required no prior qualifications whatsoever. Some roles require VERY basic qualifications (usually 3 or 4 C's in your GCSEs, or around 250 UPS points, which is not a lot), obviously some require diplomas and NVQs but they are not roles meant for education.

 

 

Unfortunately, for any sort of conscription to be practical on any level, the state of a war has to have degraded to a point where they don't have enough feet on the ground to maintain that war. In such a situation, they wouldn't exactly be bringing in new recruits to file paperwork and sit in a safe place unless you had connections to someone high up in military.

 

South Korea claim that conscription has kept the military large enough to deter North Korea from an invasion.

 

As of now, the "standing full-time force" in the UK is around 82 000, which is enough for "one operation at a time" (source). One operation at a time is all that is needed in our current political climate. If, hypothetically, Britain was under threat of invasion then this would not likely be enough to protect them. Ensuring that the majority of the population has completed basic would improve the effectiveness of any volunteers wanting to help defend the country.

 

I hear most of Britain's military operations these days revolve around technology instead of manpower. Why risk the lives of a hundred men when an apache helicopter could blow up an entrenched position from 3000 meters away?

 

This is the exact reason why I don't see conscription happening unless there's a really big screw up between all the world's major powers, which is also something I don't really see happening.

 

Gonna break character for a second and agree here. There is little chance - and very little reason, given the economical and practical drawbacks - to implement conscription, unless the country feels threatened. When we see conscription, we will know that the government is scared of an attack, and National Service will be the least of our worries.

[Vagrant0]

South Korea claim that conscription has kept the military large enough to deter North Korea from an invasion.

Not really saying all that much. North Korea is like a fragment of an old world which has been twisted and misshapen into some sort of deranged version of itself over time.

[ColdHeartonIce]

Personally, I think national service should be brought back in the UK.

That makes you a controll freak who wanna decide over other peoples lives and want them to do something under the threat of violence and jailtime by spoken so easyly about cheap labour.

I could never ever tolerate such mindset in my personal social environment. And what makes it even worse is, that you know exactly about desertion and suicide among those forced people.

 

You can refuse being drafted, you will go to jail. I'll serve jail time.

Well i choose a shootout with the MP.

[Mandamus]

National service was abolished 15 years ago in France, I never had to join the army. On a personal level, I will admit it makes me glad. Previous posters have stated better than I could do some of the positive aspects of the abolition of military conscription.

 

I do think that there are some dangers in getting rid of it, though. I don't know much about the situation in English speaking countries, but in France it was one of the few ways of building a sense of national community. My dad met plenty of persons he would never have without the army, persons from all over France and from different social classes. Our society is very hierarchical, so the army really helped "glue" everything together, if that makes sense.

 

Additionally, conscription keeps the army from being cut off from civil society, which (in my opinion) decreases the risks of a military coup. A professional army attracts some seriously weird individuals (I won't go as far as to say deranged, but a few I knew would definitely fit that description).

[dunmermaiden]

Heck no, every single militery in the world screws it's people, I mean look at Vietnam - those soldiers got chemicled by there own govt, and there own govt refuses to give them a decent payout for that agent orange that has affected generation after generation of people and still devestates Vietnam, Nope. I say screw the govt run milterys, if you wanna go fight and lose a limb or your life or your quality of life then go ahead but don't force people to go fight and get screwed over and come back disabled for life and have bad mental problems because they are so used to living on the edge that they can't deal with things being peaceful afterwards.

 

If the govts looked after their troops for life then yes maybe, but truth is that they don't. Once a soldier is injured to a point where they are no further use to govts to fight they screw them and toss them away like human trash and to me thats just disgusting and wrong and horrrible to do that to someone. Nobody deserves that.

[Vagrant0]

Heck no, every single militery in the world screws it's people, I mean look at Vietnam - those soldiers got chemicled by there own govt, and there own govt refuses to give them a decent payout for that agent orange that has affected generation after generation of people and still devestates Vietnam,

Erm, may want to check your history on that. It was used by the U.S. Military as an aggressive herbicide to clear out jungle so that we could make some efforts in flushing out the V.C. They didn't use it since they were using the jungle as a means of hiding their tunnels and movements from any air support.

 

The sad truth of life is that just about everyone gets screwed over by someone. There are many companies who routinely screw over their employees simply because they can and it's cheaper to just hire someone new. You don't need to be in the military to get screwed over by whatever powers there may be, you just have a larger group of peers who have been similarly screwed.