Compatibility mods -- Which one do I choose?

[TSMhael]

Let me first say that I'm not sure if this post is in the right place. So, moderator, feel free to move it if you need to.

 

I'm fairly new to installing Fallout 3 mods (I'm kind of going backwards in time, installing mods for Bethesda games, while using kung fu to solve complicated small-town problems... R.I.P. David Carradine), and I haven't really had a forum-worthy question until this one: Which compatibility mod (FOIP or Blackened) provides the most stable/least conflicting gaming experience when using FWE, MMM, PB, and EVE? I understand that this could easily turn into an opinion based thread, but I'll take that over the great big nothing I've found everywhere else.

 

Just so I don't get too many, "go read (blank)'s description/comments/thread/whatever else before you ask here," replies: I have spent about 9 hours+ slogging through the Fallout 3 mods, their descriptions, read-me's, comments, and discussions. I have a user's understanding of what FOIP and Blackened are meant to do, as well as the recommended mods that go with them (e.g. Fallout Remastered). What I'm looking for are some people who have tried FOIP and Blackened (or even just one of them) at one time or another, who could give me some pros and cons, and maybe some do's/don'ts for operating them.

 

Thanks in advance for any help you guys are able to give me. It is very appreciated! Installing mods for FO3 is proving to be much more complicated then it was for TESV :wallbash:

Edited October 18, 2012 by TSMhael

[M48A5]

I haven't used either of these patches but I would still like to give a little advice in this matter. Check the upload dates and pick the newest one. Both authors are competent and have done very good work. You should also check the install instructions and since you are new to modding, pick the easiest to install.

[BlackRampage]

Naturally I won't be able to give an unbiased opinion on Blackened, but if you have any questions about it then feel free to ask and I'll my best to answer them.

[acelogan]

Naturally I won't be able to give an unbiased opinion on Blackened, but if you have any questions about it then feel free to ask and I'll my best to answer them.

 

 

It seems many of the big "Must Have" mods all say, "Install this last", or "Place lowest in LOrder".

 

So, in your opinion, should Blackened come before or after Fallout Remastered in the Load Order? And if so, Should it be installed last as well?

[RealDocBrown]

The obvious answer: Which one you use depends on the mods you want to use.

If the CP patch does not support the mod combination you want to run it won't help you.

 

I use the Blackened patches (& Remastered).

Blackened is much more up to date than FOIP and also actively developed.

Or in other words, chances are that they contain less bugs in the first place - and if you find a bug you can bug BlackRampage to get it fixed. ;)

 

Pretty much the only reason to think about FOIP is WMK.

(BlackRampage said that he does not use or like WMK and won't provide a patch. He said so several times, so I doubt that asking again would help. ;) )

[TSMhael]

Thanks for getting back to me, everybody!

 

@RealDocBrown - Yea, I originally downloaded FOIP (because a lot of the major mod authors recommend it on their mod pages), but before I installed it I saw Blackened, and the more I read about that the less sure I was. One of the things that initially made me a little wary of FOIP was the fact that it hasn't been updated in a long time. I haven't gone with Blackened yet (I will decide by tonight!) because I've read that Fallout Remastered (which I would get if I were to download Blackened) doesn't work with a merged patch like a typical mod does. And I haven't found a solution for that on the forums yet.

 

I also wasn't planning on using WMK, so that's probably another reason to go with Blackened. I expect support, BlackRampage! lol

Edited October 19, 2012 by TSMhael

[RealDocBrown]

Merged patches do work with Remastered / Blackened, but it is a little bit more complex than just loading FO3edit and merge patching your whole load order.

 

tl;dr

Do not include Remastered or Blackened in your merged patch, load the merged patch just before Remastered (or Blackened if yuo only use Blackened).

 

 

Long version

As stated somewhere the problem are issues like this:

Mod X removes an item from a container. [*] The removal is done in a master file (.esm).

Patch Y adds the item again. This patch is a plugin file (.esp).

 

If you create a merged patch the rules behind the automatic merging process say "If a master file removed this item, there must be a reason for this, do not add it again." Thus you end up in a situation where a mod removed an item, the fix added it again - and the merged patch removes it yet again.

 

Both Remastered and Blackened contain are .esp and contain such fixes. So you have to know about the potential problems and then look through the merged patch to find and resolve them.

Or you simply don't include Remastered or Blackened in the merged patch and load the merged patch just before Remastered. That solves more than 99% of the problems with less than 1% of the work. ;)

 

I think that I know most pitfalls of including Remastered or Blackened into the merged patch. Still I would not do it unless I spot a problem with the simple method. Which I did not, so far. Maybe I am just more blind than others. :D

 

 

*: Or was it setting the amount of items on the container generation list to zero? Can't remember and wont check at this time.

[TSMhael]

@RealDocBrown - Thank you! That answers a lot of my questions. So the end of the load order with Blackened and Remastered would be: -Merged patch -Remastered -Blackened. When I'm making a merged patch would I deactivate Remastered and Blackened beforehand, so they aren't included at all (then, of course, reactivate them after the merged patch was created)? I don't know very much about merged patches, other then what you've told me and a few things that I've read (e.g. how to make them). Edited October 20, 2012 by TSMhael

[BlackRampage]

If you want to be really, really sure they're not included, then simply make a merged patch first, then install Remastered/Blackened.

 

*: Or was it setting the amount of items on the container generation list to zero?

Yep, that's the one. :wink:

[acelogan]

@RealDocBrown - Thank you! That answers a lot of my questions. So the end of the load order with Blackened and Remastered would be: -Merged patch -Remastered -Blackened. When I'm making a merged patch would I deactivate Remastered and Blackened beforehand, so they aren't included at all (then, of course, reactivate them after the merged patch was created)? I don't know very much about merged patches, other then what you've told me and a few things that I've read (e.g. how to make them).

 

Also, make sure you don't Master Update Remastered, as it can (will) break it, according to the author. I try to refrain from Master updating at all, unless specifically instructed to do so.

Of course, I also have yet to try creating a Merged Patch, because I'm still getting use to it all - even after more than a month playing with mods.