What Did Skyrim Do Right?

[modder3434]

 

Then you never had an argument, since you said that all pretty much all builds maxed out attributes regardless. You just proved yourself wrong. Math has already proven you wrong and nothing you say will ever change how math works. Attributes, skills and perks is mathematically more diversity than just skills and perks. 3 is more than 2, you are aware of that, correct?

You are aware that pretty much =/= all.

 

And no having more systems does not make your character more diverse.

 

having three systems =/= more diversity then two systems if one or more of the 3 systems doesn't contribute to character diversity, and indeed, makes characters more similar.

 

You are ignoring how the attribute system actually works and just saying there are three systems thus it is more complex.

 

1 + 1 + 1 is not greater then 1 + 1 is two of those three 1's are negatives.

 

your math is falwed

Actually you are ignoring how it worked, since at first you tried to say it made them all the same, then admitted that it didnt. Get your argument straight and come back, since now anything you try to say is taken with a grain of salt. Math has already proven you wrong 3>2. Attributes, skills and perks>just skills and perks. Get over it.

 

If you were to take the attributes away from Fallout, let's say, would there be more or less diversity? Common sense gives the answer, and it is less.

 

ok, my turn to try some math..

 

no one is saying 2 is greater then 3, since it is a proven fact that 3>2. What this argument really is about is the diversity betwen Oblivion and Skyrim.

 

What makes one game more diverse then the other?, well that is an opinon and its just like a**holes, everyone has one.

 

While yes Oblivion has three systems, one is redundent, the skills tie into the attributes. Is like the Marines, they mask around as a seperate branch, but they fall under the Department of the Navy.

 

Then we are back to 2 systems per game, 2=2 fact. Based on that Skyrim has more diversity

[sajuukkhar9000]

 

I dont even think you know what all attributes did. Nothing is ever going to change the mathematical fact that 3 sets of options in greater than 2 sets.

And nothing is going to change the fact that attributes only caused characters to become more similar over time, meaning it subtracted from diversity, meaning there was one system of diversity in past games, which is to say raising skills, and skyrim has two, skills and perks.

 

FURTHERMORE, all the things attributes effected, exist in Skyrim via perks also, so not only do perks cover normal Fallout 3 perks, but they also cover the things attributes did, but turned them into something that made your character more diverse instead of less diverse.

Edited October 31, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[Enatiomorph]

 

Then you never had an argument, since you said that all pretty much all builds maxed out attributes regardless. You just proved yourself wrong. Math has already proven you wrong and nothing you say will ever change how math works. Attributes, skills and perks is mathematically more diversity than just skills and perks. 3 is more than 2, you are aware of that, correct?

You are aware that pretty much =/= all.

 

And no having more systems does not make your character more diverse.

 

having three systems =/= more diversity then two systems if one or more of the 3 systems doesn't contribute to character diversity, and indeed, makes characters more similar.

 

You are ignoring how the attribute system actually works and just saying there are three systems thus it is more complex.

 

1 + 1 + 1 is not greater then 1 + 1 is two of those three 1's are negatives.

 

your math is falwed

Actually you are ignoring how it worked, since at first you tried to say it made them all the same, then admitted that it didnt. Get your argument straight and come back, since now anything you try to say is taken with a grain of salt. Math has already proven you wrong 3>2. Attributes, skills and perks>just skills and perks. Get over it.

 

If you were to take the attributes away from Fallout, let's say, would there be more or less diversity? Common sense gives the answer, and it is less.

 

ok, my turn to try some math..

 

no one is saying 2 is greater then 3, since it is a proven fact that 3>2. What this argument really is about is the diversity betwen Oblivion and Skyrim.

 

What makes one game more diverse then the other?, well that is an opinon and its just like a**holes, everyone has one.

 

While yes Oblivion has three systems, one is redundent, the skills tie into the attributes. Is like the Marines, they mask around as a seperate branch, but they fall under the Department of the Navy.

 

Then we are back to 2 systems per game, 2=2 fact. Based on that Skyrim has more diversity

We are talking about attributes, skills and perks. Not how some previous game handled them, how Skyrim would. And no, attributes were not redundant and Sky doesnt really have more diversity either. Most of the perks add nothing new to the series. So it looks like 3>2 stands.Then there's the fact that if attributes were redundant, which they are not, then so would skill in Skyrim since Skyrim is all about the perks and has little to do with actual skill level anymore. Skill level in Sky pretty much only governs prerequisites and a small modifier here and there. So we would be back to 2>1.

 

 

I dont even think you know what all attributes did. Nothing is ever going to change the mathematical fact that 3 sets of options in greater than 2 sets.

And nothing is going to change the fact that attributes only caused characters to become more similar over time, meaning it subtracted from diversity, meaning there was one system of diversity in past games, which is to say raising skills, and skyrim has two, skills and perks.

 

FURTHERMORE, all the things attributes effected, exist in Skyrim via perks also, so not only do perks cover normal Fallout 3 perks, but they also cover the things attributes did, but turned them into something that made your character more diverse instead of less diverse.

Nope, as you've already admitted. Every time you post, you seem to make your argument weaker and weaker.

 

Maybe these people with no argument should try playing the older games and learn what all attributes did. If you did, then you'd know that not all of the variables attributes did are covered in Skyrim.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Enatiomorph

[formalrevya]

Actually you are ignoring how it worked, since at first you tried to say it made them all the same, then admitted that it didnt. Get your argument straight and come back, since now anything you try to say is taken with a grain of salt. Math has already proven you wrong 3>2. Attributes, skills and perks>just skills and perks. Get over it.

Ugh.... I swear.

 

When raising attributes like endurance the bonuses they provide are small for each individual level, having an 80 in endurance, and an 85 in endurance really doesn't mean jack squat but a point or two of health.

 

The difference between the two characters is so minimal it might as well not exist, when I said they were all exactly the same, I do admit, it was a slight embellishment, but then again, I thought you actually had some understand of how the system worked and would get my meaning, which you apparently don't.

I dont even think you know what all attributes did. Nothing is ever going to change the mathematical fact that 3 sets of options in greater than 2 sets.

 

Agility

Affects your total Fatigue, damage dealt by ranged weapons, and your steadiness in combat.

Endurance

Affects your total Fatigue, as well as your starting health and your health gain upon leveling up.

Intelligence

Affects your total Magicka.

Luck

Affects everything you do in a small way.

Personality

Affects your ability to gain information and better prices from NPCs.

Speed

Affects how fast you move and the length of your jumps.

Strength

Affects your total encumbrance, your total Fatigue and the damage done by melee attacks.

Willpower

Affects the rate at which Magicka regenerates, as well as your total Fatigue.

 

There, that's all stats did. Now tell me how that makes for a unique character if all of those stats are the same or close to the same.

[MiloHunts]

ok putting math aside and spamming aside

Here are some cold hard facts

 

in Morrowind

you had Major amd Minor skills

Both could be increased, but the major increased faster

all skills were seperate so you could raise each one individually by use or training

so every weapon or magic school you used increased as you used it

 

in Skyrim

you have weapons grouped

if you use a sword and max it out, all the perks and 100 skill (or if you have a capper, then higher), now switch to a mace and no matter how much you use your mace, your skill will not improve so you can put perks into it.

You can use a magic school, raise it and put those perks into your mace, but not from using the Mace.

 

The same goes for 2 handed, switch from 2H sword to 2H axe

 

So in Skyrim you loose in the amount of weapons you can increase by using them.

Edited October 31, 2012 by MiloHunts

[Enatiomorph]

Actually you are ignoring how it worked, since at first you tried to say it made them all the same, then admitted that it didnt. Get your argument straight and come back, since now anything you try to say is taken with a grain of salt. Math has already proven you wrong 3>2. Attributes, skills and perks>just skills and perks. Get over it.

Ugh.... I swear.

 

When raising attributes like endurance the bonuses they provide are small for each individual level, having an 80 in endurance, and an 85 in endurance really doesn't mean jack squat but a point or two of health.

 

The difference between the two characters is so minimal it might as well not exist, when I said they were all exactly the same, I do admit, it was a slight embellishment, but then again, I thought you actually had some understand of how the system worked and would get my meaning, which you apparently don't.

I dont even think you know what all attributes did. Nothing is ever going to change the mathematical fact that 3 sets of options in greater than 2 sets.

 

 

 

There, that's all stats did. Now tell me how that makes for a unique character if all of those stats are the same or close to the same.

They are not the same, or close if you RP. Which we've already proven with math. Do people not stick to their builds, or even read this thread, or what?

 

ok putting math aside and spamming aside

Here are some cold hard facts

 

in Morrowind

you had Major amd Minor skills

Both could be increased, but the major increased faster

all skills were seperate so you could raise each one individually by use or training

so every weapon or magic school you used increased as you used it

 

in Skyrim

you have weapons grouped

if you use a sword and max it out, all the perks and 100 skill (or if you have a capper, then higher), now switch to a mace and no matter how much you use your mace, your skill will not improve so you can put perks into it.

You can use a magic school, raise it and put those perks into your mace, but not from using the Mace.

 

The same goes for 2 handed, switch from 2H sword to 2H axe

 

So in Skyrim you loose in the amount of weapons you can increase by using them.

And that's not even including all of the cut skills, or that attributes in Morrowind affected way more stuff than in Oblivion.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Enatiomorph

[modder3434]

"They are not the same, or close if you RP. Which we've already proven with math. Do people not stick to their builds, or what? "

 

a lot of gamers don' want to have to start all the way over if they mess up, but a chunk do like the option to change on the fly, and some are just too impulsive to stick with anyrthing for too long.

[Enatiomorph]

"They are not the same, or close if you RP. Which we've already proven with math. Do people not stick to their builds, or what? "

 

a lot of gamers don' want to have to start all the way over if they mess up, but a chunk do like the option to change on the fly, and some are just too impulsive to stick with anyrthing for too long.

Then that's on them, not attributes. Attributes didnt make you max them, you did. These people would have the same problems with Skyrim for not having a respec.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Enatiomorph

[formalrevya]

Actually you are ignoring how it worked, since at first you tried to say it made them all the same, then admitted that it didnt. Get your argument straight and come back, since now anything you try to say is taken with a grain of salt. Math has already proven you wrong 3>2. Attributes, skills and perks>just skills and perks. Get over it.

Ugh.... I swear.

 

When raising attributes like endurance the bonuses they provide are small for each individual level, having an 80 in endurance, and an 85 in endurance really doesn't mean jack squat but a point or two of health.

 

The difference between the two characters is so minimal it might as well not exist, when I said they were all exactly the same, I do admit, it was a slight embellishment, but then again, I thought you actually had some understand of how the system worked and would get my meaning, which you apparently don't.

I dont even think you know what all attributes did. Nothing is ever going to change the mathematical fact that 3 sets of options in greater than 2 sets.

 

 

 

There, that's all stats did. Now tell me how that makes for a unique character if all of those stats are the same or close to the same.

They are not the same, or close if you RP. Which we've already proven with math. Do people not stick to their builds, or what?

 

Doesn't answer the question. If you're saying the uniqueness of the characters came solely from their attributes, and you could max out almost all of the attributes just by playing a character for long enough. Then how does it make those characters unique?

[Stemin]

So in Skyrim you loose in the amount of weapons you can increase by using them.

 

Doesn't matter. At the end of the day all the weapons are still at 100.

 

Seriously. This is a thread about positives in Skyrim.