Partitioning for FNIS?

[JadedJuniper]

So I finally decided to move my Skyrim SE mods to Vortex. As with so many before me, I ran into the (apparently common) problem where FNIS refuses to recognize that my other mods exist. I've done extensive research into the matter and found many different suggestions, but the only thing I can find that seems like a definitive answer is that you need to install Skyrim SE to a separate drive for FNIS to work. This is strange, as this wasn't a problem at all with NMM or MO. I don't have any separate drives, so I investigated what to do to change that. I have since discovered that I can 'partition' a separate drive out of my C drive.

 

I don't want to go toying with this unless I am absolutely reassured it will work. So my question: If I create a partitioned drive from C and move Skyrim SE and my mods to it, will Steam and FNIS play nice together or will Steam still consider that a "Windows" drive and refuse to let FNIS work?

 

Assuming this is the right course of action, what would be an appropriate partition size? Knowing Skyrim SE is 12 Gb by itself, I was thinking 20 Gb would be more than enough for my purposes, but there may be background elements I'm not aware of.

[AugustaCalidia]

So I finally decided to move my Skyrim SE mods to Vortex. As with so many before me, I ran into the (apparently common) problem where FNIS refuses to recognize that my other mods exist. I've done extensive research into the matter and found many different suggestions, but the only thing I can find that seems like a definitive answer is that you need to install Skyrim SE to a separate drive for FNIS to work. This is strange, as this wasn't a problem at all with NMM or MO. I don't have any separate drives, so I investigated what to do to change that. I have since discovered that I can 'partition' a separate drive out of my C drive.

 

I don't want to go toying with this unless I am absolutely reassured it will work. So my question: If I create a partitioned drive from C and move Skyrim SE and my mods to it, will Steam and FNIS play nice together or will Steam still consider that a "Windows" drive and refuse to let FNIS work?

 

Assuming this is the right course of action, what would be an appropriate partition size? Knowing Skyrim SE is 12 Gb by itself, I was thinking 20 Gb would be more than enough for my purposes, but there may be background elements I'm not aware of.

With Vortex as mod manager, Steam, Skyrim SE, your Skyrim SE mods, and FNIS can all exist happily on the same drive. Over the past two years using Vortex (starting with alpha), I've successfully run all these in the C:\ drives of two separate gaming computers. I've had absolutely no difficulty setting up and using FNIS. "Partitioning for FNIS" is completely unnecessary.

 

There are some extensive threads on FNIS in this forum. Have you looked there for help? Also, it might help to describe your issue in more detail using the following guidelines: How to Request Vortex Support.

[fore]

I would really like to know where you found this "definite answer" that you need to install SSE to a separate drive. Because that is the most stupid "definite answer" I have ever read. And I have read MANY stupid assumptions during the eight year that FNIS exists.

 

The REAL problem is that noob users are much better in making unfounded assumptions, than reading instructions and program output. Because probably more than 90% of ALL cases where users say that "FNIS refuses to recognize that other mods exist" is because they have FNIS not properly installed under Vortex (or what other mod manager they use). And THAT in almost all situations this is indicated by the warnings that FNIS spits out. Which noobs often simply wink at.

 

And maybe 9% of all cases is because they tend to assume that FNIS has to recognize all animation related mods, even when those mods don't list FNIS as a requirement.

 

And if you belong to the 90% or 9% groups I can only tell when I see your full FNIS output. :)

[JadedJuniper]

I did a little digging, and it appears I didn't have the full information. What I was looking at was for separating individual games. What wasn't mentioned was moving the entire Steam library into a separate location on the C:\ drive. I have since found out how to do that. I'll probably try that next.

 

But before I do, I might as well show the FNIS output. Dunno if it helps, but I feel I should point out that I tried installing the FNIS Sexy Moves mod as a test (I already had SkyUI) and got direct confirmation that FNIS isn't detecting it through an in-game alert.

 

I get the code below regardless of whether I run FNIS from the Vortex tool or from the actual .exe in File Explorer.

FNIS Behavior V7.5.1   12/21/2019 4:32:19 PM
Generator: C:\Users\jp_co\AppData\Roaming\Vortex\skyrimse\mods\FNIS Behavior SE 7_5_1-3038-7-5-1-1573167075\tools\GenerateFNIS_for_Users\GenerateFNISforUsers.exe
>>Warning: Bad installation. Generator not run from <Skyrim_Data>\Tools\GenerateFNIS_for_Users. If you use a mod manager, run FNIS from its list of supported tools.<<
Skyrim SE 64bit: ??.??.?? - C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition\ (Steam)
>>Warning: Expected generator path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Skyrim Special Edition\data\tools\GenerateFNIS_for_Users<<

Skeleton(hkx) female: Default (99 bones)   male: Default (99 bones)

Reading FNISBase V7.5.1 ...

All Anim Lists scanned. Generating Behavior Files...

Creature Pack not installed

 0 animations for 1 mods successfully included (character).

 2 Warning(s).

[AugustaCalidia]

You have not installed the FNIS Generator correctly. Read the two warnings.

[JadedJuniper]

You have not installed the FNIS Generator correctly. Read the two warnings.

I don't understand how that's possible. I know it says that, I did read it. But all I did was click the Mod Manager download link and let Vortex do the rest. I didn't go into the File Manager and toy with any files, I didn't manually move anything. I clicked the download link, Vortex downloaded it. I clicked the install button. I clicked the Enable button after it installed. All sources I've been to have at least one person declare this is exactly what you're supposed to do. But it doesn't work, and I'm trying to figure out why.

 

As I mentioned above, it may be because I need to move the Steam library to a new location. I was hoping for some confirmation from here, a place I'm expecting to be more reliable in its knowledge and awareness, to provide confirmation before I started screwing with things that could potentially break Steam. It's exactly because I'm a noob who would rather mod his game than break it that I came here in the first place. If my inexperience and ignorance offends, then I apologize. I'll avoid making any queries in the future.

[fore]

This is a perfect example why I'm so frustrated about this specific issue. How can FNIS be any more specific about what you did wrong?

 

>>Warning: Bad installation. Generator not run from <Skyrim_Data>\Tools\GenerateFNIS_for_Users. If you use a mod manager, run FNIS from its list of supported tools.<<

 

You come here, discuss a "definite answer", and don't even mention that you have warnings related to your problem.

 

Can anyone tell me how I could make things even more apparent than they already are?

[AugustaCalidia]

Installing FNIS is one thing. Configuring the FNIS startup tool on the Vortex dashboard is another thing. You have not done the latter correctly. Or did you even try to configure the tool? Re-read the warnings. They tell you exactly what directory you need to point to in your startup configuration.

 

The advice you were previously given is very bad advice from someone who either does not understand FNIS, does not understand Vortex, or both.

[JadedJuniper]

This is a perfect example why I'm so frustrated about this specific issue. How can FNIS be any more specific about what you did wrong?

 

>>Warning: Bad installation. Generator not run from <Skyrim_Data>\Tools\GenerateFNIS_for_Users. If you use a mod manager, run FNIS from its list of supported tools.<<

 

You come here, discuss a "definite answer", and don't even mention that you have warnings related to your problem.

 

Can anyone tell me how I could make things even more apparent than they already are?

 

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."

 

But I must ask: is Vortex not a supported tool? Or does that line refer strictly to NMM and MO, even though the mod's page on Nexus specifies it supports Vortex? Or none of these things? From what I see in the warning, I thought it was referencing one of the mod managers. If it means something else entirely, as someone with zero awareness of the intricate details of modding I would have no way of knowing it. And if I don't know it, you can bet a gazillion others with similar ignorance would make the same mistake.

 

If the warning is referencing one of the three primary mod managers, then an ignorant viewer such as myself will see that warning and think "What the heck? I did use one of the supported tools!" and won't understand why they're getting the warning. Bearing in mind total ignorance once again of how background processes work for Steam or how FNIS communicates with/through it, they're also not likely to understand that "<Skyrim_Data>\Tools\GenerateFNIS_for_Users" is specifically referencing where the game is located rather than where Vortex is putting its mods. I myself didn't understand that Vortex wasn't putting mods in the Skyrim SE data folder in the first place until the mods started having issues and I did some research, and then I didn't know that Steam wouldn't let FNIS through Vortex be part of the Skyrim data files. And I still don't understand why Steam rejects FNIS tampering with the data files in the Program Files directory while NMM and MO can do it just fine.

 

Allow me to demonstrate. Now, this question is going to sound stupid to you, but that's my entire point: I honestly do not know the answer. On your FNIS SE Nexus page, you state:

 

It is GENERALLY and STRONGLY recommended, that you DO NOT INSTALL any of Steam, Skyrim, FNIS in folders that are protected by Windows UAC (User Account Control). These are "C:/Program Files (x86)" or "C:/Program Files" (or their localized correspondents, e.g. "C:/Programme (x86)"). Use root folders like "D:\Games". This way you can avoid serious protection issues, especially when using Mod Managers.

 

But isn't D:\ a different drive from C:\? I thought that's what the different letter meant in the first place. All my life, I've heard them referred to as "C-drive, D-drive, E-drive", and so on. You mean "Root folders", a term I've never heard until I started looking at FNIS, isn't the same thing? This is the entire reason I started this thread in the first place; I thought that "Use root folders like D:\Games" meant I needed a new drive, and thus started looking into ways to get one.

 

This, I feel, is the real problem: people need to have a certain knowledge to run FNIS that most people frankly don't have. As a modder, you likely expect users to have that requisite knowledge. And that's not unreasonable. But it's not going to stop people without that knowledge from trying to use the mod anyway. They will inevitably get confused and start looking for assistance, because they want to be able to use your product regardless of what they should and do not know. I honestly don't think there's anything you can do to stop that from happening. As a Technical Writer, I know from experience that you can make any set of instructions that exist as idiot-proof as possible and someone will come along to still get it wrong. You have my sympathies.

 

...

 

And yes, I am very aware of which part of that quote at the top is me.

 

 

Installing FNIS is one thing. Configuring the FNIS startup tool on the Vortex dashboard is another thing. You have not done the latter correctly. Or did you even try to configure the tool? Re-read the warnings. They tell you exactly what directory you need to point to in your startup configuration.

 

I did indeed try to configure the tool. This is how I eventually came to realize the core problem is that the Program Files folders don't support Vortex-based mods; the target .exe did not exist in the designated folder because Vortex can't put the .exe there.

 

At any rate, as soon as I figure out what the difference is between a "root folder" and a "drive" and get the correct one set up to move Steam to, I imagine I'll be set.

[AugustaCalidia]

@JadedJuniper

 

 

I did indeed try to configure the tool. This is how I eventually came to realize the core problem is that the Program Files folders don't support Vortex-based mods; the target .exe did not exist in the designated folder because Vortex can't put the .exe there.

 

There is no such thing as a "Vortex-based" mod. For example, if you install Arthmoor's "Unofficial Skyrim Special Edition Patch" with Vortex, you would be installing the very same mod if using NMM or MO2. Mods are what they are independently of the mod manager used to install them.

 

As for where mods can be installed, they can most certainly be installed in C:\ Program Files (x86). That's precisely where I've put them and their games since Windows 7 Pro 64-bit, Windows 8 Pro 64-bit, and now Windows 10 Pro 64-bit. I've done so with no UAC permission repercussions. However, many people will recommend not using the Program Files in C:\ because of alleged UAC permission issues lurking there. However, that recommendation has nothing whatever to do with Vortex or FNIS.

 

Vortex can most certainly put the FNIS target executable in Program Files (x86). In fact, my path to the executable is precisely the expected path shown in your warning. I didn't put it there manually. Vortex put it there.

 

Have you followed that path in your Skyrim SE game to see what's there? The FNIS warning shows that Vortex has correctly installed FNIS to the Mod Staging Folder. However, my guess is that you've tried to run the FNIS Generator from that folder rather than the game data folder, where it would be after installation and deployment. You must run the FNIS Generator from the game data folder, not the Mod Staging Folder, as the warning indicates. Use the FNIS tool on the Vortex dashboard to run FNIS, and make sure that it points to the correct folder and executable in the game data folder, not in the Mod Staging Folder.

Edited December 22, 2019 by AugustaCalidia