justwannaddl Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Good point on the Tosh Raka/Akatosh connection though I am not too sure about the mantling theory. Examples of mantling only occurred to fill a power vacuum such as when Tiber Septim replaced Lorkhan or the Champion of Cyrodiil became the new Sheogorath. Martin's case was more of a temporary summoning of a god than him becoming a god himself. Tosh Raka's case sounded more like pure apotheosis. Considering how vague the source is though, it is tough to know if he became a dragon, god or just was worshiped as a dragon after becoming king. Edited November 11, 2012 by justwannaddl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Good point on the Tosh Raka/Akatosh connection though I am not too sure about the mantling theory. Examples of mantling only occurred to fill a power vacuum such as when Tiber Septim replaced Lorkhan or the Champion of Cyrodiil became the new Sheogorath. Martin's case was more of a temporary summoning of a god than him becoming a god himself. Tosh Raka's case sounded more like pure apotheosis. Considering how vague the source is though, it is tough to know if he became a dragon, god or just was worshiped as a dragon after becoming king.Actually, Sheogorath in Skyrim specifically states that Martin became a Dragon god when telling Pelagius that he was the best Septim, except Martin. I recall his works were something along the lines of "You were the best Septim ever, well except that Martin fellow, but he turned into a dragon god, and that's hardly sporting" Alsohttp://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbrideWriting the Elder Scrolls (08/27/10) You misinterpret the meaning of what Elder Scrolls are in the colloquial Tamrielic. When taken in this context, to "write an Elder Scroll" is "to make history". A deeper meaning is meant, too, but not very many laymen bother with that. Until a prophecy is fulfilled, the true contents of an Elder Scoll are malleable, hazy, uncertain. Only by the Hero's action does it become True. The Hero is literally the scribe of the next Elder Scroll, the one in which the prophecy has been fulfilled into a fixed point, negating its precursor. Also, Martin mantled Akatosh and dragon-[censored] Dagon silly, so his outlook on time in quite unlike our own. In fact, he said those words during the dragon-[censored] fight and you only remembered them later, a comforting memory that the Jills mended back into your timeline. Yes. Martin did not summon Akatosh, he became him. Edited November 11, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justwannaddl Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the quote. Didn't consider the possibility that counted as mantling since I that implied a long term assumption of such power and responsibility of a god who could no longer fulfill their duty. I always thought Martin sacrificing himself was no different from the standard sacrifice to summon Daedra before that quote of MK. When you think about how he effectively replaced the Dragonfires/Amulet of Kings as the power for the barrier against Oblivion, it kinda makes sense then that Martin mantled Akatosh. Artifacts in general are considered a part of the god after all (i.e. Sheogorath's Staff). Still, if Tosh Raka did mantle Akatosh, what vacuum, if any did Tosh Raka fill? The extinction of all dragons on Akavir? Definitely need to play the Dragonborn DLC now... Edited November 11, 2012 by justwannaddl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Still, if Tosh Raka did mantle Akatosh, what vacuum, if any did Tosh Raka fill? The extinction of all dragons on Akavir? Definitely need to play the Dragonborn DLC now...Every races version of the gods exist, Akatosh, Alkosh, Auriel, Auri-el, are all THE dragon god of time, and are each their own separate beings. The gods are like gems, with each different version being a different face on the gem, each face is different in both size and shape, but they are all part of the greater whole. On top of that, mortal belief effects realty, the gods are the way they are because mortals believe they are that way, Tosh Raka became an Akvairi Akatosh because people believed him to be, he filled no void, he just added a new face to the gem that is the Dragon-God of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justwannaddl Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Hmm. Never considered the possibility that the different names for Akatosh used between races could refer to separate entities and/or mantling events. The theory of Tosh Raka mantling Akatosh as a new facet as opposed to a completely unique being does sound far more plausible under those circumstances. I'm not sold on belief necessarily being a driving force that affects gods much less reality like in some old D&D games though. The Tribunal and Dagoth Ur obtained godhood through a combination of Lorkhan's heart and Kagrenac's tools. Mannimarco obtained godhood from his involvement in the Warp in the West. The CoC was groomed in the Isles and had to grow into the position of Sheogorath. Belief came after godhood as a sort of side effect in all these cases. Mortal reality was controlled and warped by divine power. The only case where belief may have led to apotheosis that I know of is Talos, where no direct action is confirmed to have caused his ascension to godhood. Even then, rather than belief, it could very well have been his exposure to powerful artifacts like the Numidium or interference by other divine entities that led to his attainment of godhood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoulz Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Will it be Skyrim's Shivering Isles? Certainly more interesting than over rated vampires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luzburg Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Will it be Skyrim's Shivering Isles? Certainly more interesting than over rated vampires. If Dawnguard was Skyrim's KotN. It certainly added a lot more to the game. The storylines were more or less identical too lol. Chapel gets destroyed, you do quests to get legendary artifacts and you fight a big bad evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jion7882 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Anyone know if us PC gamers will get it? Getting a tad worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 Anyone know if us PC gamers will get it? Getting a tad worried. Yes, we will. Beth has a contract with Microsoft that requires them to release DLC for Xbox before the other platforms (i think its 4 weeks before). This was part of the terms for being able to use Xbox Live as a download medium for DLC, rather than having to sell it on the shelf as extra. That said, just like with Dawnguard and Hearthfire, it will come for the PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquart Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 That said, just like with Dawnguard and Hearthfire, it will come for the PC. Don't mean to argue or anything, but I think the question is not if it will eventually come to PC, but rather when will it come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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