The Towers-Thalmor DLC theories

[Aliera Caine]

So Scorch621, are you suggesting new content be based on a Thalmor conspiracy theory to bring down the all the barriers of between the mortal plane and Oblivion? I like it! Instead of the dwarven endeavor to anti-create their own way back to the divine with Numidium, these Altmer are seeking to utilize the towers, or perhaps whatever is left of them, to free themselves of Mundus and return to their Et'Ada glory. As justwannadll suggests, it might be difficult to bring this together. The towers may have their link to Oblivion, but they were not all built at the same time and most do not exist now. Evidence of daedra freely walking about in our little corner of Tamriel (Skyrim) is scarce, proof (locally) that whatever Martin did in Akatosh form was successful. Of course, a good writer could create new evidence to wind their way through the logic of present lore.

I'd definitely love new content centered on Thalmor shenanigans, towers or no. :)

[sajuukkhar9000]

I thought the White-Gold Tower was still working? The books talk about it as if it's still working. Or the entire premise of the book is.. erm. wrong? Spoilering this just in case...

 

 

Umbriel's ruler/controller whatever you wish to call him is leading his floating part of Clavicus Vile's realm to the Imperial City specifically because of the White-Gold tower. He believes that it's powers over Mundus can remove Clavicus' hold over Umbriel. This would not work at all if the tower is as you put it 'offline'.

 

 

But not everyone wants to read the books... and they're honestly not all that well written..And I'm not sure how part of a sea, that appears to be connected to a larger ocean can continue to boil for 40 years after the cataclysmic event.... But it's not like Tamriel always follows logic anyway.

It would still be possible to use white-gold, should one has sufficient knowledge on how to create a replacement stone, such as how zurin Arctus made a replacement stone for Numidium.

[nakakita]

There doesn't seem to be any hint of, "We'll need to reactivate it first," or, "If we do this, this and this, it'll totally work" though. It's just, "We're going here to fix this little problem, now it would be nice if people would cooperate so we don't kill all of you, but we don't really care if we do." Considering all the detail it goes into describing how Umbriel actually works... I'm pretty sure that if the "evil mastermind" needed to re-create things to get the tower to work properly, it would have been mentioned.

 

The Emperor's second would be more likely to be the one doing re-activations than Lord Umbriel, but they don't talk about him doing anything like that either. He's just manipulating people, making deals with Umbriel, and hoping to gain a lot of power out of this deal.I also seem to remember he was more interested in information Lord Umbriel could give him, and power that could be gained from that rather than power the Tower could give him.

 

[sajuukkhar9000]

There doesn't seem to be any hint of, "We'll need to reactivate it first," or, "If we do this, this and this, it'll totally work" though. It's just, "We're going here to fix this little problem, now it would be nice if people would cooperate so we don't kill all of you, but we don't really care if we do." Considering all the detail it goes into describing how Umbriel actually works... I'm pretty sure that if the "evil mastermind" needed to re-create things to get the tower to work properly, it would have been mentioned.

 

The Emperor's second would be more likely to be the one doing re-activations than Lord Umbriel, but they don't talk about him doing anything like that either. He's just manipulating people, making deals with Umbriel, and hoping to gain a lot of power out of this deal.I also seem to remember he was more interested in information Lord Umbriel could give him, and power that could be gained from that rather than power the Tower could give him.

 

The Emperor, or his second, would know little of the towers, it was a secret kept kept by the Elder Counsel, the blades, the Thalmor, and a few knowledgeable Emperors such as Tiber.

 

Not to mention the dragonborn propochy of skyrim states

When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world

When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped

When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles

When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls

When the Snow Tower lies sundered, kingless, bleeding

The World-Eater wakes, and the Wheel turns upon the Last Dragonborn.

Edited November 9, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000

[nakakita]

Then that goes back to, who exactly is re-activating this tower, if it's supposedly dead? They need it to be fully functional when Umbriel arrives or the entire journey is pointless.

 

And at this time, the blades are defunct, the Thalmor is being blamed for this (even though it's even more silly to blame the Thalmor for this than it is to blame them for dragons), and actually his second was very knowledgeable in the arcane, and was interested in obscure Aylied magic. But he still doesn't seem to be re-creating anything.

 

edit: Perhaps I needed to clarify that it was silly to blame the Thalmor for Umbriel? Not for other things?

Edited November 9, 2012 by nakakita

[sajuukkhar9000]

Then that goes back to, who exactly is re-activating this tower, if it's supposedly dead? They need it to be fully functional when Umbriel arrives or the entire journey is pointless.

 

And at this time, the blades are defunct, the Thalmor is being blamed for this (even though it's even more silly to blame the Thalmor for this than it is to blame them for dragons), and actually his second was very knowledgeable in the arcane, and was interested in obscure Aylied magic. But he still doesn't seem to be re-creating anything.

The books aren't exactly well written, or well thought out.

 

Also, it isn't silly to blame the Thalmor for it, the Mythic Dawn was responsible for the Nerevarine freeing the heart of Lorkhan, the thalmor can pull off even bigger conspiracies then that.

[nakakita]

Whatever you think of them, they're still considered canon. And your last statement makes no sense whatsoever. Unless you would care to direct me to references? I couldn't find any in my short search.

[Lachdonin]

The prophesy of the Dragonborn only indicates that, at some point before Alduin's return, the White-Gold Tower becomes innert. We know, from the books (regardless of how well thought out you may think them) that it was still active after the Oblivion Crisis. The only other major incedent involving the White-Gold Tower since them was its capture by the Thalmor during the Great War. This still puts the event before the return of Alduin, and serves as the best fit for when the tower was deactivated.

 

As for the Thalmor being able to plan all this out... They spent centuries plotting their return to power after the first Domminon fell to Tiber Septim. They orchistrated a coup in Valenwood and capitalised on Khajit superstition to pull Elswyr into their empire as 'vassals'. They are clearly devious, long term planners, and have access to all the Altmer records dating back to the early Mereithic era. If anyone knows about the nature of the Towers, it's them.

 

The Thalmor have an established penchant for duplicity, manipulation and conspiracy. Despite being a powerful, ruling family in Summurset, they did not hide in the Crystal Tower along with the other ruling families, implying they knew it would be a target (I suspect they may have even put forward the idea that the others should hide in there, but thats something of a pet conspiracy theory). The books tell us they have tried to infiltrate the White Gold Tower several times even as early as 4E20, and were there even before the Medes had taken the Imperial City. They are clearly long term thinkers, they are racial purists and are known followers of the old Admeri notion of Aedric decent.

 

Really, everything points to them as the most likely to be able to destroy or deactivate towers... And to make new ones, incedently.

[Scorch621]

So Scorch621, are you suggesting new content be based on a Thalmor conspiracy theory to bring down the all the barriers of between the mortal plane and Oblivion? I like it! Instead of the dwarven endeavor to anti-create their own way back to the divine with Numidium, these Altmer are seeking to utilize the towers, or perhaps whatever is left of them, to free themselves of Mundus and return to their Et'Ada glory. As justwannadll suggests, it might be difficult to bring this together. The towers may have their link to Oblivion, but they were not all built at the same time and most do not exist now. Evidence of daedra freely walking about in our little corner of Tamriel (Skyrim) is scarce, proof (locally) that whatever Martin did in Akatosh form was successful. Of course, a good writer could create new evidence to wind their way through the logic of present lore.

I'd definitely love new content centered on Thalmor shenanigans, towers or no. :)

 

Likewise, anything to do with messing up the Thalmor and anything their doing, even if its making the morning toast...

As regards towers and deadra summoning....what about Sheogorath?

he just randomly put one of his gates in the middle of the niben and randomly goes on vacation when he pleases (but this is why he is awesome)

How is he not affected by the barriers from Oblivion, as the Shivering Isles are his realm of oblivion

[sajuukkhar9000]

Whatever you think of them, they're still considered canon. And your last statement makes no sense whatsoever. Unless you would care to direct me to references? I couldn't find any in my short search.

The Nu-mantia intercepts state that the Empire, and by extent the Nerevarine, were tricked by the Dagonites, the servants of Dagon, aka the Mythic dawn, into removing the heart of Lorkhan.

 

Lorkhan's heart being where it was, was one of the few things keeping dagon from being able to invade, the mythic dawn in essence orchestrated the entire plot of Morrowind to allow dagon to invade in Oblivion.

 

the Imperial library is down at the time I am typing this, once it comes back up I will link you to it.

 

 

The prophesy of the Dragonborn only indicates that, at some point before Alduin's return, the White-Gold Tower becomes innert.

Actually, the prophecy of the Dragonborn gives clear indication for when the event happens.

"When the Dragonborn Ruler loses his throne, and the White Tower falls"

The Dragonborn ruler losing his throne, and the fall of white-gold, are treated as dual events, they happened at the same time.

 

Similarly as to how each prophecy talks about the events of the games

When misrule takes its place at the eight corners of the world

When the Brass Tower walks and Time is reshaped

When the thrice-blessed fail and the Red Tower trembles

-The sundering of the staff of chaos to the various provinces

-Numidium's activation and the warp of the west at the end of Daggerfall.

-The death of the Tribunal at the hands of the Nerevarine, and the removal of the Heart of Lorkhan from Red Mountain

 

 

And no, we don't know from the books that it was still active after the Oblivion crisis, all we know was that they planned on using it, for all we know they had faulty information.

Edited November 9, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000