Killable children mod opinions.

[Guest]

Firstly, I boggle at this whole paranoia that having modded killable kids is somehow going to get the game reclassified or banned or whatever the fear mongering here is trying to suggest. The game is out with immortal children, games in the past allowed worse, etc, etc, as already pointed out above. There is no toggle switch or game option or cheat mode or any in-game setting you can set or enable that allows you to start murdering children. It shipped fine.

 

Secondly, attitudes even worried about this kind of thing are part of the problem; it lends credibility to these so-called ultra-conservatives supposedly running the show on what we can or can't have in our entertainment by saying we ought to allow some other body, be it government or 'regulatory oversight', make moral decisions for us. Or worse, be 'afraid' of the consequences of their decisions if we don't align with them.

 

Seriously, you're saying having digital representation of children in a game is wrong because someone is going to come and hack the code to make them die. And now worried about garbage on YouTube? Really, you want to give more power to these groups by ACTING ON THEIR BEHALF and trying to pressure people not to post what they want or to take it down? Maybe next we should shut down YouTube for even hosting and allowing such a thing to pollute our highly moral internet next, guys!

[Midicow]

It is a great mod, my reasoning is that you can load it knowing you and npcs have the ability to kill the children.

 

You can chose to save or hurt them.

 

I personally don't even have an inkling of want for them to die..

 

Probably, if you think its disgusting but you have a problem NOT killing them yourself, you should revise your views or methods.

 

If you have a problem with them getting killed.. then don't install the mod.

 

 

OR make it your quest to keep unscrupulous npcs or in-game objects from killing them, much like IRL.

[Asrayl]

The concept of censorship is one of few that'll set my blood a-fire.

 

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I was born and raised in the United States of America, the bill of rights says that in this country I have a right to speak my mind, express myself, and hold whatever views and opinions I will, no matter how ass-backwards they are.

 

The conservatives are up in arms about preventing nudity, violence, and anything even remotely questionable in our games and media of some boogey-man theory that it will someday make me snap and gun down some random people in a shopping mall because "Oh I did it in Grand Theft Auto!"

 

Frankly I think the game could do with more violence, sex and drugs. Not because it's what I'm after in real life, or because I'm some dangerous, deluded sociopath who never gets out of the house, but because the game is about choice, choices, and interaction with the world around. If I want to go down to lamplight with the Mesmetron and round up a pack of kids to ship off to Paradise Falls, that's my choice. If I want to go into Paradise falls with a fat-man and a rocket launcher, that's my choice. That's what I bought the game for, and that's why I love the modding community, even if they occasionally make some choices I feel are of questionable merit.

 

The bill of rights grants me the freedom to have and express my opinions, but that's the line. I don't have the right to tell you you must agree, I don't have the power to censor the things you read, watch, listen to, or play because I don't like them. The power of discretion lies with me, for me and by me. Not with me, for me and over you.

 

God willing (if you believe in a higher power) more people will figure that out.

 

~ Asrayl

[Silveressa]

The concept of censorship is one of few that'll set my blood a-fire.

 

I couldn't agree more, and freedom in games like this is part of what makes them so darned enjoyable. (the feeling if I want to do something I can; with consequences.)

 

Now a days with nearly any rpg game I install on my pc the second thing I do is look for mods to remove restrictions and/or provide a deeper game play. (the first thing I do is look for patches so it'll run)

 

The real problem with the freedoms people like us enjoy is others take it to extremes (like making videos of the child killing set to music and putting it up on you tube) and shock/horrify the more conservative ones out there which then sometimes lobby to restrict our freedoms.

 

Still, mods like these at least prove to the producer of the game (if not the media and public at large) that attempting to censor us makes us rebel all the stronger. Hopefully future expansions for FO 3 will remove the invulnerable kids and maybe other game companies will take the hint.

[macmert]

So forbidding or restricting something will save the community and keep them out of harms way? The most recent example, Youtube is unreachable in Turkey, you cant acess it, but it is still Top 10 in Turkey... That means many people use wormholes or such programs to reach Youtube... I mean what will be next? close down porn sites? maybe the next thing should be forcing women to wear black clothes like in some radical islamic countries so the men would not be tempted? Or maybe punish the people that do mods about killing children... Then what? will we punish players who use med x in the game? because they might become addicts in real life? or maybe interrogate every gamer who does deals with the Ultra jet producing Ghoul :)

 

There is no limit to what you can restrict and forbid, where will you draw the line? and most important of all, who will do it? It is too much power for a person or a comitee to decide... If someone has that kind of power, how can we jugde the decisions he/she makes? who will he/she will answer to?

 

So IMO anything should be free as long as it is not harmful to others, it is a gray subject I know but somehow we need to balance it...

[weedking]

I could care less about killable kids myself but I am glad that it's being worked on by people who do. Children die everyday in real life, as horrible as it is, so why should video games be any different when they're killing adults off like there's no tomorrow and trying to be as realistic with it as possible?

[SpeedyB64]

Any mod that allows the killing of children needs to have severe consequences for doing so before I download it. There needs to be a MASSIVE karma loss (like dropping to the bottom and being labeled as a child killer similar as it was in previous games). The killing or protecting of children should be one of those choices in the game. And to all those people that say that this kind of thing causes violence in society, when someone becomes violent it is not caused by games or movies it is caused by mental instability caused by something different like abuse or severe stress. It is the parents job to know weather their son/daughter is having emotional problems. All these worrywarts need to look at the real problem, that is abuse (physical and mental) in schools and at home.

[hoots7]

They really should have left child characters out of the game. There are some 'realities' that shouldn't be gratuitously recreated for our entertainment, some themes that should only be explored by those with the intellect to treat them with deep respect. I think it was a pretty dumb move by Bethesda to stick those characters in, when they knew full well how resourceful the modding community is, and when they don't have full disclaimers about modification of their intellectual property. Oblivion has already started to get something of a reputation as a game where strange, misfit young men live out sweaty, sordid and voyeuristic little fantasies on their heavily modded Oblivion. Example: how long before we get a 'Sexlivion' for FO3 (assuming we get a CS, or maybe the modders won't need one). Yeah, that's the problem. Does FO3 get the reputation as the game with child-murder and child-sex mods? And how would you morally seperate one from the other? Both would depict violent violation of children, and most members of the public might well assume that anybody interested in one might well be interested in the other.

Knowing how utterly frigging puerile and tasteless people can be, Bethesda should never have left themselves open for this.

Point taken....I would have to agree, that would have been the easiest course for Bethesda to take.

There have already been a great many post on this subject if any one wants to research.

Everyone knows real children die in the real world, that is not the issue. Some points of realism do not have to be depicted in a video game.

If a town gets bombed and later you walk through the empty town you don't have to see little body parts to conclude that the children died with the adults.

[Guest]

Child killing mods are perfectly acceptable and should not be prohibited by anyone in any way, as long as they clearly explain what graphic content they implement and are restricted from underage audiences (or allowed with parental consent).

 

One of the biggest problems in the world today is politically-correct liberals thinking it's fair or just to restrict the masses from something because a minority chooses to use it irresponsibly.

 

Should you prohibit tens of millions of people from owning firearms because a few damaged individiuals elect to shoot up a school? Absolutely not.

 

Should you prohibit consumption of alchohol by hundreds of millions of people because some cannot maintain control over it? No.

 

Should you prohibit certain depictions of violence or sex for a billion people because it may have an impact on psychological outlook on life, or influence the actions of a handful? Never.

 

 

Time and time again we see the price to pay for freedom and responsibility is that there will always be a few who elect to use it irresponsibly, but that is no reason to take the right away. If you do that, eventually it won't just be graphic depictions of violence against children, it will be graphic depictions of violence in general. Then it will be non-graphic depictions of violence. Then, before you know it, there will be such mass censorship that you won't even be able to write your own personal ideas, thoughts, or disagreements without a tyrannical government arresting you.

 

 

 

My point is, you don't have to like a child-killing mod. You don't have to watch it, you don't have to download it, you don't even have to know about it. But, like many other things, it absolutely and undisputedly is protected under the first ammendment, and many people have no issue with it and should be permitted to view it if they wish, ESRB-be-damned.

 

Remember, when you try to mold others into your opinion, eventually someone else is just going force you into theirs. The only solution is for everyone to define their own mold, and not each others.

[Silveressa]

Child killing mods are perfectly acceptable and should not be prohibited by anyone in any way, as long as they clearly explain what graphic content they implement and are restricted from underage audiences (or allowed with parental consent).

 

 

Well put, and it's nice to see that even a subject as controversial as this can be discussed without the thread descending into a flame war. (Now if only we could compress this thread into an email and send it to beth studios to read and give them something to think about.)

 

Ideally such games as this one with children in them should have a "content filter" available in the options menu (password protected) for people to turn on/off such things as mortal children, blood/gore, foul language, sex, etc... To tailor the games realism to their preferred level (or the level they feel comfortable having their children play it at)

 

Such a feature would make everyone happy, since it would enable those bothered by the concept or mortal children (or drugs, gore etc..) to disable it with a mouse click and enjoy the game how they prefer it, and the rest to play it as real as they like. It would also allow parents to configure the games content to be teen (or perhaps lower?) compared to the current "mature" rating, thus boosting sales.

 

I do agree though, the mod would be improved by imposing a -500/-1000 or whatever karma for each child killed, to better portray the in game society's disapproval for such actions.