Regarding CUO vs OOO conflict

[dezdimona]

dezdimona Posted Today, 05:37 AM

the last mod in your load order always takes precedense over the ones before it...nice job though!

 

correct!

thats why load order is important especially with a mod like OOO or MMM or any other mod that changes game play!

[octavius243]

...k, so lemme get it straight.

 

...two mods conflict because they alter the exact same aspects or items or whatever

 

...BUT, the one that loads last takes over

 

SO... you get the aspect, items or whatever ...just modified by ONE mod !?!

 

 

Correct, with exceptions of Cells and Worldspace where any number of mods can add things.

Also, WryeBash can merge many things.

 

As for stuff disappearing, in this case OOO stuff is blocked from appearing if CUO loads after. And CUO stuff would be blocked if OOO loads last.

[Nowena]

Yes, and as I said, all of that is and always has

been spelled out completely in the documents that

are included with the download as well as what to

expect from each of your choices.

 

If you want more OOO loot, you don't need to load

OOO last, just leave unchecked the loot specific choice.

Same as the rest of the choices. That way you have the

parts you want of each.

 

We have also found, from input by various users, that the

game - with CUO and OOO loaded - works better without bashed

patches. If CUO is loaded last of the overhauls, it seems to

run more stable even without those patches - and when

you choose what elements you want, even with those OOO

specifics you desire.

 

Nowena

[nosisab]

...k, so lemme get it straight.

 

...two mods conflict because they alter the exact same aspects or items or whatever

 

...BUT, the one that loads last takes over

 

SO... you get the aspect, items or whatever ...just modified by ONE mod !?!

 

the stuff doesn't disappear, right?

Your question is meaningful and well placed. Understanding the main conflicts kind may help choosing mods and cares about installing and setting the load order.

 

. Two or more mods place the same files at the same location. This conflict is obvious, the last 'installed' mod will overwrite files of the other and special care is needed when uninstalling any mod of the group since removing the common files implies removing the files the other uses. The 'surviving' mod MUST be reinstalled to recover the lost files, even if its ESPs remains. A little thinking is enough tho see the "installation" order is most meaningful here than even the load order, and indeed changing that load order after installation may lead the ESP to point the 'wrong' file if they are different but the name.

 

. Two or more mods have different files (maybe at different folders) that refers to the same object. This is the most common kind, and is the one that thread is all about. The containers OOO and CUO edit have different lists that points to different items. No item is physically lost but when OOO ESPs loads (assuming OOO come first) that conflicting containers and their list is the active one... now CUO's ESP come and refers to the same container, OK, the container is the same as the vanilla one anyway, but now is the CUO's list the active one, the former is "forgotten" and so no OOO item from that list will show up anymore "In this container", just the ones from CUO will do. This don't prevent those items from OOO being used from another source; says, maybe, in another container that don't conflict or as loot on a corpse or even sold by a merchant...

Change the load order now and the container's list from CUO is the one forgotten, yet the same rules above applies.

 

. Some more complex conflicts may arise from scripts, quests, landmass etc... They are too much complex to speak about in this thread scope, hope your mods don't have them. A more obscure conflict may arise if some reference is yet in the save game and is of such nature than can't be just ignored when the saved game is loaded, this may be the case when an object from certain mod is replaced by another mod and they have differences... A new game will just use the new object and it's properties, but the object in the saved game may have properties not satisfied anymore, which may turn the game unstable or even prevent it loading or the game just crashes.

 

Too many words, for this thread purposes, the second kind is the one involved, I hope the idea was not spelled in a confusing way. The difficulty of dealing with such lists kind is them being leveled lists and the engine don't give good mechanism to avoid the problems.

[giskarduk]

Not again......same guy too, Hi octavius243, long time no see. I guess your plugging for the 244th account then ?

 

They are all coming out of the woodwork today....groan...

 

This is the design philosophy of CUO.

If your going to argue what CUO does, at least understand what it was designed to do and why.

 

http://www.novazone.karoo.net/CuoDesignPhilosophy.htm

 

Here is an accurate record of known issues that have arisen due to our Design Philosophy in CUO.

 

http://www.novazone.karoo.net/CuoCompatibilityProblems.htm

 

What Octavious is saying above is something we already said in the mods own docs.

 

Here is an extract from the CUO docs including the ESP he is refering too, notice its name has the word DIRTY in it, meaning we labeled it as DIRTY our selves dispite the fact it was made the same way as OOO was made because there was NO OTHER WAY to update those parts.

 

So its got all the faults OOO and mods designed using the OOO system have. Which is why this module is marked as DIRTY and the rest are not.

 

Have a read.

 

Dirty ESPs

 

All Overhauls edit the game data directly but I try not to because it causes problems with other mods. However, sometimes I must so I branded these DIRTY so you can see these are the risky esps to use if you have any concerns at all about compatibility. In most cases running these after other overhauls but before other mods will fix any problems you may hit. The load order is important because other overhauls edit the same items these mods edit so running these before overhauls would effectively turn them off.

 

CUO_BadGuy_Specific_Loot_DIRTY.esp

This esp customizes the loot found in chests at specific locations, so it matches the type of bad guy that uses that location. EG Necromancer loot in necromancer caves is a good example. This is part of my plan to make various locations feel more like the home of those that inhabit them. The edits were made to the EditorIDs not the FormIDs found in various cells so all references will be updated automatically.

 

Also the mod is modula so you can choose to use them or not, this too is from the mods own docs. Every single ESP in the mod can be run on its own if you want, its entirely your choice.

 

Included Files

 

These files will overhaul your game in much the same way my other mods have overhauled various factions and cities in the game. Doing to the same generally what Kvatch aftermath and Origin of the mages guild did. The included esps are all optional, you can use all of them or none of them or anything in between. But together they offer the complete Cyrodiil Upgrade experience.

 

Sorry but Octavous has been arguing a point that is clearly written down in our docs. He has tried hard to avoid mentioning the esps name he has had fault with or the fact it was made the same way as OOO. Which is clearly a mod he likes because it harms his case to reveal that information and failing to reveal key points of information like that in chats like this is an old flamer trick.

 

I'll tell you all name of the module in CUO he is refering too.

 

It is CUO_BadGuy_Specific_Loot_DIRTY.esp

 

And he has tried hard to brand CUO with that addons faults even though CUO is a modula overhaul and that one is just 1 optional addon made that way because there was no other way to edit those items safely. We at least separated it from the rest of the mod and made it an optional addon for increased compatibility options.

 

So what you see Octavious doing is mod bashing yet again, the moderators let him walk away from the Fighters guild contacts bashing he attempted a few days ago dispite never using the the mod and because of that, he is back less than a week later to do exactly the same thing again.

 

This is mod bashing, plain and simple and I will be treating it as such.

 

Giskard

[nosisab]

So what you see Octavious doing is mod bashing yet again, the moderators let him walk away from the Fighters guild contacts bashing he attempted a few days ago dispite never using the the mod and because of that, he is back less than a week later to do exactly the same thing again.

 

This is mod bashing, plain and simple and I will be treating it as such.

 

Giskard

Edited: You are right and the time to place this thread under moderator attention has come.

[Stampede]

I'm locking this until further notice. This thread will be reviewed by the staff and will be opened again should it be in the best interests of the board to do so. I am closing it for the moment to avoid any possible unpleasant dialogue.

 

Stampede

Moderator