"Wasteland Modification Survival Guide" for installing mods in

[DavidYokosukaJapan]

First background info: FOSE, FOMM (v.640-0-13-21), BOSS, and FO3edit installed. I do know how to activate FOMODs using FOMM, understand the importance of proper load order (thus BOSS), and value and making of the Merged Patch.

Also, all DLCs installed; Steam version of Fallout 3.

 

What is the proper order to install the Following for a stable game experience?

 

FWE 6.03

Mart's Mutant Mod RC62 (tougher traders disabled and Zones Respawn disabled but all other options enabled)

EVE

RH_Ironsights with FWE Bridge

DC Interiors

Busworld

Undiscovered Capital

Enhanced Weather and Fellout -or- Project Reality

Darnified UI

iHUD

(and optionally NMC's beautiful texture pack)

 

 

After reading a lot of reviews I've come to the conclusion that the above list represents the basic level 'how Fallout 3 should have been released" (which is why it's a relatively short, lore friendly mod list).

 

Through experience I know that just installing the above (in that order), running BOSS for proper load order, and then making a Merged Patch will not give a stable experience: CTD when entering a new cell, CTD when save game is activated is a *common* occurence.

 

If you have the above installed and working stable, please tell the rest of us how you got that to work. Did you install FWE first? What was the order you installed the mods, and if you used compatibility patches, what was the order of esm & esp installation and/or delete or overwrite if necessary?

 

I hope a Survival Guru arises who can help write the "Modification Survival Guide" to get the above mods working together nicely and help all of us Vault Martyrs, Vault Renegades, and Vault Outlaws get to a stable, fun, realistic, and challenging Capital Wasteland. :thumbsup:

[M48A5]

Order of installation has no bearing on the stability of the game. Load order and compatibility does. It makes no difference what order the mods are installed, just the order they are loaded in the game. That is where BOSS and compatibilty patches come in. If you don't have the FO3Edit Training Manual, you will be at a loss as to how to use FO3Edit.

[Agnithrax]

Looking at your list I see a lot of texture files and I don't think all of those mods were built with sunny happy BSA's. FO3 is kinda persnickety about having lots of small little files to look for and will pitch a fit at first. After awhile she seems to calm down, but until she uses the new textures a bit she seems to like to crash me; going into and out of the Megaton Player home is where she especially likes to take it out on me. I'm turning my fav mod toys into a single mod so I can make all the Data meshes and textures and such into a single BSA and try to alleviate the same pain you're going through bro. I'd suggest using FOMM to BSA up any of those Data files that are flapping in the breeze, proly wanna do it the easy way though by just making a BSA for each of your mods that need them and if you find solace from it maybe even offer those BSA's as an update for the authors fans to the mod author to do what they wilt with.

The other funky weirdness that FO3 likes to be a tease with are the auto saves. Go to your options menu from your falloutlauncher.exe, not fallout.exe, the options from the launcher there and turn off all of your autosaves. You'll have to remember to save early/ save often but she seems to like crashing over the autosaves when she's all modded up.

Finally, you'll want to check in with Old Reliable. If those 3 tips don't do it, then I'm sorry but...you knew Steam was the Devil already didn't ya?

Edited November 12, 2012 by Agnithrax

[DavidYokosukaJapan]

Order of installation has no bearing on the stability of the game. Load order and compatibility does. It makes no difference what order the mods are installed, just the order they are loaded in the game. That is where BOSS and compatibilty patches come in. If you don't have the FO3Edit Training Manual, you will be at a loss as to how to use FO3Edit.

 

Thanks you for laying down the foundation. I have the FO3Edit training manual and have read the parts on making a merged patch, running MasterUpdate, and MasteRestore but that's it.

 

For compatibility patches (CPs) it appears the top ranking one at the Nexus' Top Files list is Fallout Remastered, which has CPs for:

FWE 6.03

Mart's Mutant Mod RC62

EVE (the Paradox Ignitions version)

RH_Ironsights with FWE Bridge (version was unspecified so I guess it doesn't matter if it's the original or the Paradox Ignitions version)

and Fellout (same with this).

 

Briefly reading the readme's I saw that if these Fallout Remastered patches are used, one should never use MasterUpdate because doing that will break the fixes the Fallout Remastered CPs fix.

Also noted was, "A few records are consistently misplaced when running a merge with Fo3edit while Fallout Remastered is enabled. This is not a problem specific to Fallout Remastered, but will cause some fixes to be overwritten." [[EDIT: on the Fallout Remastered Nexus page it reads to NOT use FO3edit with those patches, so I guess no merged patch if using Fallout Remastered.]]

 

I'm hoping this next part is correct but we'll see. So in summary,

1) Install the above mods and their updates with FOMM. In the case of any P.I. versions you have to install the original mods, then install P.I. esp's/esm's overwriting the originals in the process.

2) Install all of the Fallout Remastered CPs

3) Use BOSS to sort load order.

40 Play game

 

That should be it for a stable, enjoyable experience. Right?

 

DC Interiors, Busworld, and Undiscovered Capital are not mentioned in the readme's I saw for Fallout Remastered so I have to assume that those last three mods are in a 'use at your own risk' status regarding stability.

 

If this post is wrong/inaccurate, please correct me.

Edited November 12, 2012 by DavidYokosukaJapan

[DavidYokosukaJapan]

Looking at your list I see a lot of texture files and I don't think all of those mods were built with sunny happy BSA's. FO3 is kinda persnickety about having lots of small little files to look for and will pitch a fit at first. After awhile she seems to calm down, but until she uses the new textures a bit she seems to like to crash me; going into and out of the Megaton Player home is where she especially likes to take it out on me. I'm turning my fav mod toys into a single mod so I can make all the Data meshes and textures and such into a single BSA and try to alleviate the same pain you're going through bro. I'd suggest using FOMM to BSA up any of those Data files that are flapping in the breeze, proly wanna do it the easy way though by just making a BSA for each of your mods that need them and if you find solace from it maybe even offer those BSA's as an update for the authors fans to the mod author to do what they wilt with.

The other funky weirdness that FO3 likes to be a tease with are the auto saves. Go to your options menu from your falloutlauncher.exe, not fallout.exe, the options from the launcher there and turn off all of your autosaves. You'll have to remember to save early/ save often but she seems to like crashing over the autosaves when she's all modded up.

Finally, you'll want to check in with Old Reliable. If those 3 tips don't do it, then I'm sorry but...you knew Steam was the Devil already didn't ya?

BSA's... looks like I have to find the verbose version of the FOMM manual. Messing with BSAs is not something I've done.

Ah tweakguides! I love that site. I used it to tweak the graphic settings beyond defaults before I found FOMM. Now I just use FOMM for that and don't mess around in the ini or fallout prefs files anymore.

 

As far as save crashes go, it's wierd: if after starting the game I immediately load the same save I just loaded and then I can save for a while (even autosaves). If I don't do that then any save causes a CTD, including the manual, back-out-to-the-menu save, which so far has been the most stable. Regardless of saves though, currently the game will CTD when coming close to Megaton or Fort Independence.

 

This next part may be overkill but... I'm tempted to uninstall ALL mods, clean reinstall Fallout 3, then reinstall mods one-at-a-time testing for stability before installing the next to (hopefully) find my Stable FWE+MMM+EVE+RH_Ironsights+Fellout+Enhanced Weather Capital Wasteland. If I can get those all to work nice together then again, one at a time, DC Interiors, Busworld, Undiscovered Capital, and More Map Markers.

I'm hoping the Fallout Remastered Compatibility Patches will solve this problem. If not, then I guess I'll have to read the FO3edit manual from front to back 3 times and then mess around with editing the files that cause crashes when they are messed up. So far I've only read the how-to's on Merged Patch making, MasterUpdate, and MasterRestore.

 

Speaking of FO3edit... I can't run MasterUpdate now as it is -- tried and it gives an error message and turns one of the optional FWE plugins into a "this file has the extension es but it's header marks it as an esm." It was an issue because it would pop into the top of the load order automatically every time FOMM was run and I had to manually put into down with the other FWE optional plugins everytime I ran the game.

Running MasterRestore fixed that "file with extension esp but marked as esm" but I think it may have broke something because that's when I noticed that going to Fort Independence would CTD every time and also saving the game would CTD about 95% of the time. Realy bad juju...

[M48A5]

In regards to the message you are getting about the file header being an .esm, you must load that file with the other .esm or you will have a problem with the game crashing. This happens when an author makes the file a master and does not change the extension. Disregard the message and leave the file in place with the other .esm. There are a few other mods available that are the same way. I believe you are referring to FWE Alternate Travel.

[DavidYokosukaJapan]

In regards to the message you are getting about the file header being an .esm, you must load that file with the other .esm or you will have a problem with the game crashing. This happens when an author makes the file a master and does not change the extension. Disregard the message and leave the file in place with the other .esm. There are a few other mods available that are the same way. I believe you are referring to FWE Alternate Travel.

Thank you for that. I won't mess with it next time. I think using MasterRestore to turn it into an esp royally messed up the game because it crashes after initially loading a game if a save is made or changing to another cell. :confused:

Before I get too much off topic, if I deactivate all mods and reactivate FWE only, would the old saves still be usable or would they cause unstability and crashes?

[Agnithrax]

...if I deactivate all mods and reactivate FWE only, would the old saves still be usable or would they cause unstability and crashes?

 

In my experience, removing a mod will present you with a warning when you load a save that some features have been changed but other than that she works fine. I'm not certain if simply deactivating a mod will be so trouble free, but the worst that can happen would be a ctd so you ought to be fine with it. I tend to use FOMM just for ripping textures and meshes from dlc's to monkey around with and I unzip and load mods directly as you never always know if they built that data pathway correctly, also I'm compulsive about checking the readme files. I've never tried the MasterRestore you're working with or Boss for that matter, I find I can check for load conflicts with FO3edit and when I'm good then make my merge patch and roll on into a game. I don't know how MasterRestore builds the .esp that's giving you trouble, imo the geck is really the way to go when you want to build one but there you are stuck with vanilla fo3 and 1 other source for that .esp to be slaved to with geck so there are some limits with it. FWE's alternate travel has never been more than heartache for me though, you might want to try just deactivating that feature of FWE first (if I recall it correctly I believe it has it's own .esp) instead and see if that's whats holding up the works. Since you're only going to be deactivating rather than removing, you may even want to consider toggling them active and deactivated to see if you can track down and isolate which mod may be the cause and which are working well together. Hope that can be of some help and you can get back to saving the wasteland soon.

[DavidYokosukaJapan]

In my experience, removing a mod will present you with a warning when you load a save that some features have been changed but other than that she works fine. I'm not certain if simply deactivating a mod will be so trouble free, but the worst that can happen would be a ctd so you ought to be fine with it.

I partially got a fix be deactivating all the mods. Then loaded up and ran to a few areas where it was CTD before.. and was ok. Then reinstalled FWE, RH_ironsights, a few others. Long story short, it was stable until either EVE, MMM, or the weather mod was installed. So at least I have it narrowed down.

 

I tend to use FOMM just for ripping textures and meshes from dlc's to monkey around with and I unzip and load mods directly as you never always know if they built that data pathway correctly, also I'm compulsive about checking the readme files.

I'm pretty good about reading the readmes as well. But i've noticed that some conflict with each other. Some say "and put your merged file last" while other state "do NOT use FO3edit with this mod or you will break it!" so... makes it confusing. It's like mom is saying "eat your greenbeans and get dessert" while dad says "do NOT eat those greenbeans if you want dessert..." :confused:

 

I've never tried the MasterRestore you're working with or Boss for that matter, I find I can check for load conflicts with FO3edit and when I'm good then make my merge patch and roll on into a game.

I only came across mods (Fallout Remastered specifically) that I saw in the readme NOT to use fo3edit with them. Prior that I would use FOMM to install a mod, BOSS to autosort it into the 'right' order, then make a merged patch, and run. FWE by itself runs fine. I think even with Fellout it was running ok. After installing either MMM or EVE things got choppy (and then ctd). Even with Fallout Remastered installed.. still ctd every few min.

 

So... in FO3edit I've noticed some mods have a ' I don't know how MasterRestore builds the .esp that's giving you trouble, imo the geck is really the way to go when you want to build one but there you are stuck with vanilla fo3 and 1 other source for that .esp to be slaved to with geck so there are some limits with it.[/size][/font] FWE's alternate travel has never been more than heartache for me though, you might want to try just deactivating that feature of FWE first (if I recall it correctly I believe it has it's own .esp) instead and see if that's whats holding up the works. Since you're only going to be deactivating rather than removing, you may even want to consider toggling them active and deactivated to see if you can track down and isolate which mod may be the cause and which are working well together. Hope that can be of some help and you can get back to saving the wasteland soon.

Well come to think of it... I enabled the FWE alternate travel around the same time I started using MMM, EVE, and Fellout. Not sure which one stepped on the others toes and made the CTD but... well I may have to give up one or the other. It's a tossup... Back then all I did was install via FOMM, ensure load order was as-specified in the readmes, install merged patch and go. After CTDs started, i chucked the merged patch, sorted via BOSS, make a new merged patch and... no change. So, YES, your info is helpful and nudged my mind in the right direction, and that's *always* appreciated :)

 

I was told in a few posts that I needed compatibility patches, and was directed kindly to Fallout Remastered (F.R. has an esp for each mod it's associated with) and installed, but this time NOT using a merged patch because some of the readmes state (this is an actual quote), "do not clean this mods or Blackended mods using the ANY VERSION of fo3edit, to do so ruins [it]."

So some people say to use FO3edit to, i assume, edit myself (shudder :blink: ) the merged patch it cranks out. (Anyone who reads this, is that right?? ) While the ReadMe's of the Compatibility Mods basically are saying 'Don't use Fo3edit on this Compatility Patch or you Will Break it!" So who's right? :blink: Being a Fallout basic user I want the simplest solution possible that won't require me to do more than click a few buttons (like installing a mod in FOMM!) via a friendly GUI...

Well.. I think the next step is put put a "Blackened" patch at the bottom of the F.R. esps. If that doesn't work then I guess I'll have to disable either EVE or MMM to see which one needs to go -- I'm kinda hookd on the Alternate Travel. Fast Travel without a vehicle somehow feels like.... cheating :sweat: Anyhow because the ReadMe's all conflict with each other are Not Clearly Written I'm 'easter egging' it again... this time I'll install the Blackended esp, put it last in the load order and pray that that's all that was needed for stability.

 

Honestly I don't like to gripe because I *really* appreciate the mods -- the mods themselves are generally really well done, professional, and really add cool elements to Fallout 3 :biggrin:

 

BUT, and it's a BIG butt, most of the time, non-professional mod developers' readmes/install documentation tends to ... well.. suck. They are GREAT at modding but Terrible at providing concise, detailed instructions which I why I'm here, begging for help. sigh. You know, I'd be willing to ship a case of good quality Japanese beer to those developers if they just wrote better documentation regarding the install of their mods alongside others because when you follow the readme instructions and install one mod and it runs great and then you follow the readme instructions and install another mod and then it's ctd... well I know plenty of people know the frustration. Oh but I better stop because I have the sinking feeling that I'm ranting now. And I *hate* ranting. Sorry! I owe you all a beer. Let me know when you're visiting Tokyo :thumbsup: OMG this reply to you got 5x longer than I planned.. :ohdear:

[BlackRampage]

BUT, and it's a BIG butt, most of the time, non-professional mod developers' readmes/install documentation tends to ... well.. suck. They are GREAT at modding but Terrible at providing concise, detailed instructions which I why I'm here, begging for help. sigh. You know, I'd be willing to ship a case of good quality Japanese beer to those developers if they just wrote better documentation regarding the install of their mods alongside others because when you follow the readme instructions and install one mod and it runs great and then you follow the readme instructions and install another mod and then it's ctd

A modder can't spent hours upon hours checking which other mods may or may not conflict with his or her own mod. I also don't see how it's the responsibility of a mod author to make his mod work with just about every single other mod out there. Let alone that it sometimes isn't even possible to do such a thing at all. This is especially true for massive overhaul mods such as FOOK2 and FWE.

 

I only came across mods (Fallout Remastered specifically) that I saw in the readme NOT to use fo3edit with them. Prior that I would use FOMM to install a mod, BOSS to autosort it into the 'right' order, then make a merged patch, and run. FWE by itself runs fine. I think even with Fellout it was running ok. After installing either MMM or EVE things got choppy (and then ctd). Even with Fallout Remastered installed.. still ctd every few min.

That's because you need patches to make them all work together well. Aside from that, you need a pretty decent computer to run those mods. All are quite taxing on your system.

And I haven't even mentioned NMC's texture pack just yet.

 

I'm pretty good about reading the readmes as well. But i've noticed that some conflict with each other. Some say "and put your merged file last" while other state "do NOT use FO3edit with this mod or you will break it!" so... makes it confusing. It's like mom is saying "eat your greenbeans and get dessert" while dad says "do NOT eat those greenbeans if you want dessert..." :confused:

I know of only one mod that tells you not to use Fo3edit on it, and that mod is Remastered. The Remastered readme will also tell you that you should put Remastered below any and all other mods.

 

1 thing you should also take into consideration is that many of the mods that tell you to put your merged patch last have been finished long before Remastered even existed. Naturally they will simply tell you to put your merged patch last without making any mention of Remastered.

Besides, it's not the responsibility of the author of any 1 mod to make mention of what other mods recommend.

 

So some people say to use FO3edit to, i assume, edit myself (shudder :blink: ) the merged patch it cranks out. (Anyone who reads this, is that right?? ) While the ReadMe's of the Compatibility Mods basically are saying 'Don't use Fo3edit on this Compatility Patch or you Will Break it!" So who's right? :blink: Being a Fallout basic user I want the simplest solution possible that won't require me to do more than click a few buttons (like installing a mod in FOMM!) via a friendly GUI...

A layman's excuse. If you're unwilling to do some reading and the like then maybe you shouldn't even use mods at all.

 

Regardless, the makers of such compatibility patches are usually the ones who are "right". If only because compatibility patches get made after mods are completed, not the other way around.