Colonel Autumn?!

[evilbeefjerky]

Yes, he disobeyed orders, but because of a specific disagreement with Eden about tactics (ie whether or not to kill off the "impure" types indiscriminately). We don't know what his long-term plans were, nor whether he felt his break with Eden was permanent. You are assuming that this is illogical because it suits your purposes, not because it is, in fact, demonstrably illogical (aka "bad writing). Treason is to side with the enemies of one's own side. Autumn does not do this.

 

Do you honestly think a military leader of any nation today could casually countermand their leader's orders, send troops in VIOLENT OPPOSITION to that leader's personal guard then abandon that leader to persue their own agenda and then come back later?

 

 

Source?

 

Game dialogue. She's a hydroponics researcher at Rivet, always has been. Never worked at Project Purity before unlike Dr. Li and the guys who escape with you.

 

The PC doesn't have high science (except maybe when you play him/her).

 

So.. the PC doesn't have high science.. except when they do? What?

 

Autumn shoots you when he gets the code because he fears that "you" will try to get revenge for his responsibility in the death of "your" father. Lame writing would involve "you" ignoring that and working with him. The repeated assertion that Colonel Autumn is a badly written "complete imbecile," despite evidence to the contrary, remains unpersuasive. Trying to combine assertions into arguments does not make the assertions true.

 

Funny how Dad dies by his own choice.

Funny how you can repeatedly say this to others.

Your desire to be ignorant of the facts doesn't negate their existance.

 

I didn't compare Autumn to any specific characters. He adequately fulfills his role, as does The Master, Lou, Horrigan, etc. his dialogue is not as complex as, say, The Lieutenant, because it doesn't need to be to fulfill his role.

 

 

He fulfills the role of imbecillic villian. That's about it.

I'd argue that it's not and shouldn't be his role. Because his role is never really defined. Is he your nemesis? Is he a loyal Enclave soldier? Is he a rebel? He keeps flip flopping motivations and objectives for no reason. That, right there, is bad writing.

There is a limit to how much dialogue and exposition can be built into any game. Fallout 3 doesn't need as much as, say, Fallout 2 because it isn't the same type of game. That isn't to say that Fallout 3 is perfect, or that it meets my own expectations for a "hybrid Fallout 2 and Oblivion," but I am realistic about how far any company can afford to go in building a game, and I think assertions of malice or incompetence because some given expectations are not met is illogical.

 

Garbage. I could write a better plot and characterisation in an hour and I've never written anything in my life. Bethesda simply didn't try.

[evilbeefjerky]

accidental double-post

[grumbler]

Do you honestly think a military leader of any nation today could casually countermand their leader's orders, send troops in VIOLENT OPPOSITION to that leader's personal guard then abandon that leader to persue their own agenda and then come back later?

You understand what a strawman argument is, right? If you don't, look it up. If you do, figure out what part of the above argument is pure strawman.

 

Game dialogue. She's a hydroponics researcher at Rivet, always has been. Never worked at Project Purity before unlike Dr. Li and the guys who escape with you.

 

Really? Here is some game dialogue:

 

PC: Wait a minute. What are you doing here?

Holt: I didn't want to help them at first, but... The technology they have here. It's so far advanced from anything I've worked with.

 

PC: What have you told them?

Holt: They wanted information. About Doctor Li, about Project Purity. They want to know how to start it up, and why it wouldn't work.

Holt: I told them everything I could. About the G.E.C.K., about the damage caused by the explosions... All of it.

 

PC: What did you tell them?

Holt: Everything they needed to know to improve on the original design, and to make sure it's actually completed.

 

Now, find me the in-game dialogue which says that she has never worked at project Purity. It seems to me that the above statements by her clearly indicate that she HAS worked on Project Purity - since she knew everything about it that Autumn wanted to know.

 

So.. the PC doesn't have high science.. except when they do? What?

Exactly, which is why the argument that Autumn wouldn't kill the player because of the PC's "high science" is bunk.

 

Funny how Dad dies by his own choice.

Really? Dad just offs himself, for no reason related to Autumn? Or is Dad's choice between dying and letting Autumn take over Project Purity, a decision made after Autumn has just shot a co-woker down in cold blood? I don't see how you can argue that the PC would not be out for revenge because, after all, it was "funny" that "Dad dies by his own choice."

 

Funny how you can repeatedly say this to others.

"This" is a pronoun without an antecedent. The statement makes no sense.

 

Your desire to be ignorant of the facts doesn't negate their existance.

Again with the attempt to make this about me, rather than my arguments. How about we leave my "desire to be ignorant" (which you could not possibly know about, given that you don't even know who I am) out of the discussion, and stick to debating arguments?

 

The "facts" are that

(1) Autumn has a very good reason to consider the PC a potential threat, given that Autumn has just been responsible for the death of Dad (and the murder of Kaplinski).

(2) Anna Holt knows a great deal about Project Purity; enough to tell the Enclave the problems encountered and how to solve them sufficiently to get the whole project completed.

Both of these statements are demonstrably true, and both of them are "facts" which you deny to be true. What does this say about your absurd charge re: me?

 

He fulfills the role of imbecillic villian. That's about it.

As do The Master, The Lou, Horrigan, etc. That's what games have. All game characters are imbecilic compared to real people.

 

I'd argue that it's not and shouldn't be his role. Because his role is never really defined. Is he your nemesis? Is he a loyal Enclave soldier? Is he a rebel? He keeps flip flopping motivations and objectives for no reason.

I thought you wanted a "gray" character? And when you get one, you complain that, like real humans, it is hard for you to figure out his motivations. Personally, I had no problem doing so (though I don't know the specific reason why he thought the plan to kill off all the "defectives" indiscriminately was wrong). He never changes in terms of his main objective, though, which is to gain control of a working Project Purity so that he can use its power to establish the Enclave as the dominant power in the region. If you get confused by the dialogue into thinking that at some points this isn't his objective, I am sorry for you. But your confusion doesn't make an argument.

 

That, right there, is bad writing.

I disagree. It is impossible to make a game at the lowest common denominator, that will confuse no one, and still make it interesting to the average player. At some point even non-bad writing says "some people just won't get it," though good writing should make that number as small as possible.

 

Garbage. I could write a better plot and characterisation in an hour and I've never written anything in my life. Bethesda simply didn't try.

Can you point me to the games in which your plots and characterizations have been successfully implemented? If not, then statements like this are as easily dismissed as those of any amateur talking about how he could have played the pro game better than the pros, because you simply do not understand the constraints under which pros work.

[noobax]

OK EVERYONE STOP ARGUING THIS POST IS HOW AUTUMN COULD SURVIVE THE RADIOACTIVE ROOM WHERE THE PC'S FATHE DIED NOT WHETHER THE ENCLAVE IS GOOD OR BAD OR WHATEVER STUFF.......................................................... :mellow: :mellow: :mellow: :biggrin:

[scannerfish]

The word fascist is thrown around way too much in here.

 

 

Not everyone is a teenarchist, so use it right.

 

 

Autumn is not using extreme nationalism to end class disputes, end of story. The concept of killing or imprisoning your opposition is not fascist: it's totalitarian, or being an asshat if it's a one time thing. If you really want to give the enclave a political definition, they are a right wing technocracy.

 

Autumn, that's a good question. I wish, there would have been an ending if you were killed by autumn of what happened afterwards. But, I don't get what would be wrong with a strong dictatorship bringing order to the capitol wasteland. It's better than baby eaters, and out of control mutants running everything.

[Starch]

The word fascist is thrown around way too much in here.

 

 

Not everyone is a teenarchist, so use it right.

 

 

Autumn is not using extreme nationalism to end class disputes, end of story. The concept of killing or imprisoning your opposition is not fascist: it's totalitarian, or being an asshat if it's a one time thing. If you really want to give the enclave a political definition, they are a right wing technocracy.

 

Autumn, that's a good question. I wish, there would have been an ending if you were killed by autumn of what happened afterwards. But, I don't get what would be wrong with a strong dictatorship bringing order to the capitol wasteland. It's better than baby eaters, and out of control mutants running everything.

 

There is no need for force order on the wasteland. The order in the wasteland is slowly returning.

[Neym]

I thought this post is about how Colonel Autumn survive the radiation?!?Then read along the post,it seems like you guys talk more about him,the goverment and Bethesda

[grumbler]

I thought this post is about how Colonel Autumn survive the radiation?!?Then read along the post,it seems like you guys talk more about him,the goverment and Bethesda

The original question was about Autumn's survival, but that was dealt with in the 10th post, and then we saw the very common tendency for threads to drift off topic, especially when the initial question has been solved but people have introduced extraneous suppositions in the meantime.

[hbzliln1ck]

When i was trying to beat this game for the first time, I was confused when I saw Colonel Autumn appear after his supposed death.

 

But now that i hear that injected himself with something i do remember.

 

i think that either it was a clone that was in there(which makes you ask why would he inject himself with something)

 

so i will rule the top out

 

and ill have to go with that he must of had some kind of form of rad x in that syringe.

[ZS1]

...but I am realistic about how far any company can afford to go in building a game, and I think assertions of malice or incompetence because some given expectations are not met is illogical.

 

Their game engine got WORSE and more prone to crashes while development advanced. That's rather flawed programming I'd say. Sure, more code, more potential error. But I don't recall that many other engines that deterioated like that. In fact, only one... Stalker's xRay Engine. But that's Stalker...

 

[Disclaimer: I'd probably still buy their next game if I like it, I just also happen to like to discuss]