What you miss from oblivion that skyrim doesn't have .

[EnaiSiaion]

Given that vanilla Skyrim has, what, twelve perks per tree, this is not terribly difficult to understand. ANY warrior is going to take all give perks in either one-handed or two-handed, ANY archer is going to take all five ranks of that beginning perk. Skyrim suffers from too few perks per tree, lacking any true degree of specialization between characters broadly defined as "warriors."(...) In this sense, Diablo II serves as a good example. In D2, you were able to develop loads of unique builds (though, of course, some were more min/maxed than others) that specialized in certain sub-trees. Trapsins, Kicksins, Javazons, Bowazons--that sort of thing. You also had builds that were entirely dependent upon equipment, often a single piece, a cool feature that TES doesn't really do and I don't really know why not.

 

Diablo II is the perfect example of why all customisation in every game ever is just an elaborate fake.

 

You "could" make all those amazons or assassins, but why would you? The best assassin was based on lightning sentry, making the entire skill tree nothing more than a noob trap to catch out people who might be too unexperienced to know which skills are the best. The best amazon was another class because there was no reason to play an amazon in 1.10. Same goes for the other classes, which all had 1-2 viable builds and everything else was useless.

 

WOW. STUNNING CUSTOMISATION THERE.

 

It is impossible to balance unequal choices when the player has free access to all options. If one is 1% better, everyone will use only that option because it is the best. Blizzard didn't even try, but even if you do try you won't achieve this ideal. And after all why play a game when you're not trying to win?

[AnimeOtaku102]

Diablo II is the perfect example of why all customisation in every game ever is just an elaborate fake.

 

You "could" make all those amazons or assassins, but why would you? The best assassin was based on lightning sentry, making the entire skill tree nothing more than a noob trap to catch out people who might be too unexperienced to know which skills are the best. The best amazon was another class because there was no reason to play an amazon in 1.10. Same goes for the other classes, which all had 1-2 viable builds and everything else was useless.

 

WOW. STUNNING CUSTOMISATION THERE.

 

It is impossible to balance unequal choices when the player has free access to all options. If one is 1% better, everyone will use only that option because it is the best. Blizzard didn't even try, but even if you do try you won't achieve this ideal. And after all why play a game when you're not trying to win?

I wouldn't use a single game as proof of an entire genre, however I won't disagree with you that it is impossible to balance everything. Developers of single player games should just make all powers viable and if there's an overpowered build that arises from those options, let it be overpowered. It's single player, I'd much rather have lots of options and the flexibility to stumble across a thematically cool combination of powers rather than have to hit the forums and look up build optimization threads that go into dreary details on what abilities proc when and how, and what monsters are resistant to which powers, etc. etc.

 

Of course, if a game has multiplayer mode they would need to consider balance, but not every game needs a multiplayer mode (and I hate how that seems to be the trend in the past decade).

[EnaiSiaion]

I wouldn't use a single game as proof of an entire genre, however I won't disagree with you that it is impossible to balance everything. Developers of single player games should just make all powers viable and if there's an overpowered build that arises from those options, let it be overpowered.

 

I know. In a past life I developed a popular ARPG mod and this was my strategy. Of course people still figured out the best build that farmed the fastest, posted build guides, and then everyone made only that build. It got more complicated when people then complained the game was too easy with their min/maxed build and/or the weaker builds were "not viable" because they farmed slower. A few years later every build and item except the very best had become "not viable" and the mod was "way too easy".

 

You can't stop this from happening. Even now, people follow Oblivion levelling guides just so they don't make the game "impossible" for themselves because scaling is "broken". Is it? No, but it gets harder if you do it suboptimally (duh), which is apparently intolerable. And then the game turns out to be too easy when you play like that. Shocker.

[AnimeOtaku102]

I know. In a past life I developed a popular ARPG mod and this was my strategy. Of course people still figured out the best build that farmed the fastest, posted build guides, and then everyone made only that build. It got more complicated when people then complained the game was too easy with their min/maxed build and/or the weaker builds were "not viable" because they farmed slower. A few years later every build and item except the very best had become "not viable" and the mod was "way too easy".

 

You can't stop this from happening. Even now, people follow Oblivion levelling guides just so they don't make the game "impossible" for themselves because scaling is "broken". Is it? No, but it gets harder if you do it suboptimally (duh), which is apparently intolerable. And then the game turns out to be too easy when you play like that. Shocker.

That's rather disheartening. Too many people just don't know how to enjoy games for the content and creativity rather than how fast or effectively they can blow through it. Little wonder so many games these days have estimated play times of less than 20 hours (and I'm being generous with that estimate, I don't think games even mention estimate play time anymore) and streamline character customization to the point of pointlessness.

 

*flails a walking cane at random youngsters*

[MetallicAGuy]

An actual attribute system.

 

EDIT: Also horse buttholes. They were hilarious simply because the developers actually took the time and bothered to make an anus for the horses textures.

Edited November 30, 2012 by MetallicAGuy

[t55]

I actually find that a slight amount of complexity in the game makes you feel more involved with your character. This isn't them most appropriate example but final fnatasy 8 really got to me with the their stat system. I could get slightly frustrating having to apply magics to certain skills to improve them but in general it worked really well for me. It allowed the opportunity to have each character good at one certain thing, so there was a lot of think work involved which made you proud when you could smash in an enemy in one or two hits. Sometimes you would fail miserably but then you would just be more determined to beat your enemy.

It kinda showed that you don't need boatloads of perks or stats but just a good system.

What I find with the skyrim perk system is that I couldn't care less about anything other than my two weapon and one armor perk trees. I actually liked that in oblivion that you were forced to make a descision without fully understanding the implications because it kept the game fresh, having to give up one thing to gain another.

[Soris81]

Wayshrines.

[MasterAub]

I miss underwater combat for sure, but more importantly I miss the ability to zoom around in and out my character while running. In short the ability to admire my character coolness in action.

 

Plus I miss Shivering Isles and I almost forget those darn Mountain Lions

Edited November 30, 2012 by MasterAub

[nakakita]

Wayshrines.

There are wayshrines though. The differences are that the powers from them don't stack anymore, and that they're identical to the shrines you find in temples. There also isn't a pilgrimage option, but there isn't infamy to get rid of.

[skarvika]

The more interactive dialogue (for example, if you talked to a guard in Oblivion, there would be quite a few dialogue options but in Skyrim they just spout out a one liner) :(

The lush, bright forests...true, the darker, deader look is more fitting for Skyrim, but man, Oblivion was just beautiful...also the variations in landscape...Skyrim has the same basic look throughout.

The Arena was a nice addition, as were the guilds...Skyrim feels a little empty without these factions.

More personalized character creation (Oblivion had all sorts of sliders, but Skyrim just lets you choose from presets)

The almost heroic feel of working for the thieves guild (Oblivion made it seem like you were helping unfortunate people, Skyrim made it sound like you're just bullying people for personal gain heh)

That wonderful tranquil music (Wings Of Kynareth anyone?!?!)

The creature variations!!! Oblivion had loads of different creatures for you to battle, but Skyrim was just...wolves...wolves and bears...everywhere wolves and bears. I miss fighting minotaurs and ogres. Yes, I know there's actually a bit of variation to Skyrim's enemies, but does anyone actually want to beat up a baby walrus?? Come on now...

The cities; oh god, the cities...they felt more immersive and larger, more full and teeming with life...in Skyrim, even the capital (Solitude) feels hollow and small. I would have also preferred more locations to discover, since in Skyrim it seems like half of the time you're wandering about the world, there's nothing to do but admire the environment.

And like Derok mentioned, quests that aren't just dungeon cleaning. ;) I really enjoyed Oblivion's side quests, there was a lot more variety to them...for example, when Jensine asks you to spy on Thoronir...they actually provide a backstory and give you a chance to interact with the characters, and on top of that it's an interesting quest as well. Skyrim quests are more like "Bandits stole my shield. Kill bandits. Get shield. Get gold." :laugh: