MF4GA (Make Fallout4 Great Again)

[BurnableAddress]

This is just some of my ideas about where Fallout4 went wrong, what it could have been, and more about what Fallout76 should have included:
Fallout 4's scrap and build system is just fine with some additional mods included like many of the mods that add more of a selection of building pieces to menus, and the mod that removes build height distance. I think much of the magic of 4 versus 3 is that you can truly tear down and re-build your game environment under these circumstances. It's all about the control and about the player getting to have as much of it as possible.

 

Fallout 4's weapon system - Let's face it, pipe weapons are basically useless apart from being providers of some scrap material. On the other side of that, mods like Modern Firearms are quintessential to this game and this universe. One thing I like about Modern Firearms is that there is real danger to the player. With a lot of those weapons, if you are shot once in the face you basically die, so you have to actually take cover in a firefight instead of, 'oh as long as I'm not shot 1079 times I will survive this'. With Fallout76 one of the major issues it seemed to me was that there wasn't a large enough pool of weapons to find out in the world. Hunting rifle, machine gun, bat, tire iron, axe.......... uh, ok, where is anything else? Modern Firearms adds tons upon tons of different pistols and rifles and heavy weapons and machine guns to the game. Suddenly you are mistaking Fallout4 for Borderlands 3.

 

Fallout4 Meets TheSims? One thing I think many people don't enjoy about Fallout 4 is the Minutemen quest line that essentially makes Fallout4 suddenly a lot like TheSims in that you suddenly are having to manage more than a dozen settlements and all of the needs that come with. In small doses this can be appealing I think, but over time and with the increasing number of settlements to manage I think it can become overwhelming especially when there is a danger of losing control of a settlement if you fail to properly defend it. I also don't like that no matter how many defenses you build, it seems that regardless you still have to show up to settlement defense events or they will eventually automatically fail. If Fallout 4 would have been made with the settlement management quest-line completely removed, I have to wonder if Fallout 4 as a whole would have been better for it.

 

Navmeshing and AI: Yes, the dreaded Fallout 4 navmeshing. Even when you don't alter the vanilla environment of Fallout 4, the AI and Navmeshing in the Fallout 4 world seems like it should have been much better than it is, because it its current state it mostly sucks. I dream of a Fallout 4 where the assignment of settlers will prompt them to run straight and true to their assignment. Instead Fallout 4 suffers from settlers not being able to go through many doors, up stairs, randomly dropping out of their assigned tasks for no reason, ending up on rooftops, in walls, in the ground of all things, randomly appearing outside of where they are supposed to be standing (like when assigned to basically any vendor stall anywhere, and then of course you have modded environments which comes with its own slew of problems.

 

Fallout4 Re-Made? I think Fallout4 currently comes down to the question of whether or not it should be re-made similarly to how Skyrim was re-made with the Special Edition. Sadly, Fallout76 SHOULD have been the outcome of everything Bethesda had learned from Fallout4 and instead had an arguably worse launch than the worst parts of Fallout4, which, to me, suggests that they did 0000 research using Fallout4 before the creation of Fallout76 for this reason: ??????????????? There was literally no reason Fallout76 shouldn't have been fantastic and yet it was terrible. In a perfect world, with the right vision and management, Fallout4 still has the potential to be everything that it should have been from the start.

MORE TO COME

[Freezingfield]

Fair points but I'm like 99% sure Fallout 76 was cancelled multiplayer DLC for 4 re purposed into a full game. The fact that it had basically non existent dev time seems to support this.

[markusm1000]

Fair points but I'm like 99% sure Fallout 76 was cancelled multiplayer DLC

 

Fallout 76 is the multiplayer design of Fallout 4. It's not a clone or a cheap copy or a DLC or even a pre-FO5, it is Fallout 4.

https://youtu.be/gi8PTAJ2Hjs?t=139

Edited February 18, 2020 by markusm1000

[StormWolf01]

Ok, so I'm afraid that I'm gonna have to disagree with some of that, Markus. While they may have originally have had it as a concept of Fo4, 76 has so many differences that we can't call it 4. Completely different vault, different protagonist, different suits, different pip boys, no story to reunite the family, etc etc etc.

I do agree tho, that Bethesda has wanted to take Fallout online, since they acquired it. That's actually HOW they acquired it. (ok, there's some angst there on my part on how butthesda did that. It's not directed at you, Markus.)

 

As for the video, it's OT, but it's cool that one of the lead developers of 76 was a Dev for Ultima Online. That was the first MMO that got really big, and it was my introduction to online gaming. Many many hours spent in frustration and entertainment from that game.

Tho I guess... it makes sense. He already had experience with companies that refuse to update their game engine to get with the times. :dry: :laugh:

I'm wondering if they'll actually listen to him if he tells them that can be the absolute death of an online game. (not likely).

 

I will also say this about the video. In regards to 76. Especially in regards to 76. Anything that comes out about 76 that comes outta Howard's mouth, has to be taken with a grain of salt. A very big one. Info about that game, from him... well, the story tells itself.

 

Ok, so to be honest. While LEGALLY, butthesda owns Fallout; the community has made that game so much better than they ever did. Which is the way that it is with ALL their games. And one of the reasons why 76 is not as popular. So in all realism, the modders own Fo4, even tho they have no claim to it. Butthesda owns 76 and so it will never be as good.

[AeonsLegend]

This is just some of my ideas about where Fallout4 went wrong, what it could have been, and more about what Fallout76 should have included:

Fallout 4's scrap and build system is just fine with some additional mods included like many of the mods that add more of a selection of building pieces to menus, and the mod that removes build height distance. I think much of the magic of 4 versus 3 is that you can truly tear down and re-build your game environment under these circumstances. It's all about the control and about the player getting to have as much of it as possible.

 

Fallout 4's weapon system - Let's face it, pipe weapons are basically useless apart from being providers of some scrap material. On the other side of that, mods like Modern Firearms are quintessential to this game and this universe. One thing I like about Modern Firearms is that there is real danger to the player. With a lot of those weapons, if you are shot once in the face you basically die, so you have to actually take cover in a firefight instead of, 'oh as long as I'm not shot 1079 times I will survive this'. With Fallout76 one of the major issues it seemed to me was that there wasn't a large enough pool of weapons to find out in the world. Hunting rifle, machine gun, bat, tire iron, axe.......... uh, ok, where is anything else? Modern Firearms adds tons upon tons of different pistols and rifles and heavy weapons and machine guns to the game. Suddenly you are mistaking Fallout4 for Borderlands 3.

 

Fallout4 Meets TheSims? One thing I think many people don't enjoy about Fallout 4 is the Minutemen quest line that essentially makes Fallout4 suddenly a lot like TheSims in that you suddenly are having to manage more than a dozen settlements and all of the needs that come with. In small doses this can be appealing I think, but over time and with the increasing number of settlements to manage I think it can become overwhelming especially when there is a danger of losing control of a settlement if you fail to properly defend it. I also don't like that no matter how many defenses you build, it seems that regardless you still have to show up to settlement defense events or they will eventually automatically fail. If Fallout 4 would have been made with the settlement management quest-line completely removed, I have to wonder if Fallout 4 as a whole would have been better for it.

 

Navmeshing and AI: Yes, the dreaded Fallout 4 navmeshing. Even when you don't alter the vanilla environment of Fallout 4, the AI and Navmeshing in the Fallout 4 world seems like it should have been much better than it is, because it its current state it mostly sucks. I dream of a Fallout 4 where the assignment of settlers will prompt them to run straight and true to their assignment. Instead Fallout 4 suffers from settlers not being able to go through many doors, up stairs, randomly dropping out of their assigned tasks for no reason, ending up on rooftops, in walls, in the ground of all things, randomly appearing outside of where they are supposed to be standing (like when assigned to basically any vendor stall anywhere, and then of course you have modded environments which comes with its own slew of problems.

 

Fallout4 Re-Made? I think Fallout4 currently comes down to the question of whether or not it should be re-made similarly to how Skyrim was re-made with the Special Edition. Sadly, Fallout76 SHOULD have been the outcome of everything Bethesda had learned from Fallout4 and instead had an arguably worse launch than the worst parts of Fallout4, which, to me, suggests that they did 0000 research using Fallout4 before the creation of Fallout76 for this reason: ??????????????? There was literally no reason Fallout76 shouldn't have been fantastic and yet it was terrible. In a perfect world, with the right vision and management, Fallout4 still has the potential to be everything that it should have been from the start.

MORE TO COME

1. Weapons: Do advanced weapons actually make a difference when you're level 100? I've modded my game to make weapons that enemies carry 4 times more powerful and it didn't make me any less godlike. Sure they do a bit more damage, but with 300+ armor and 1K HP it doesn't really matter anymore. Pipe weapons aren't actually the weakest weapons. Fully modded they do good dps. Comparable to combat rifle in fact.

 

2. Sims? Well there's an entire mod that enables you to play like this. It's called sim settlements and this will make sure you spend 10x more time on your settlements than before. People enjoy this stuff. Anyways. The radiant quests are annoying because they aren't optional when you want to play Minutemen, otherwise it's actually not that hard. As long as your defense rating is much higher than the other stats. (there's a calculation) then the chance your settlements get attacked is extremely low and when they do get attacked they are likely to defend themselves. I get like 2 attacks per PT and they always defend themselves. Don't want to bother with it? Just build 1 turret and then dupplicate it 30 times. Doesn't cost any resources and it's faster than anything else. Do make sure to send them back into the workshop and place them through the workshop afterwards. Otherwise the defense rating won't go up.

 

3. Settlers ending up inside buildings or on top of them has nothing to do with navmeshes. It's all about their spawnpoint and Fallout choosing the location and height. Oftentimes it will choose the highest point. It doesn't check whether it is a roof or a floor or if there's a stairs to get down from there. The sanctuary house where the workshop is, is one of these locations in the base game that suffers from a spawn point inside the house.

 

4. I don't know what you're trying to say here. Fallout 76 and 4 use the same engine and game assets. But that's it. I don't see a reason for FO4 to be remade. If anything people are waiting for FO3 or NV to be remade in the FO4 engine.

[StormWolf01]

Oh. Lets not forget the NPC settler actors randomly teleporting up onto rooftops during cell reset.

How many of us have seen the roof brahmin?

[steamsux]

I have been playing Bethesda games since the dawn of time lol....One thing about F04, You are right the pipe guns are scrap....and the cartoon look killed me, there was plenty of room for improvment towards, the original look....But that is the thing the biggest key concept and difference in my opinion. Fallout series was bought up by bethesda it's not their native baby....their vision is different....and definitely different than FNV's Devs....Which if you read the backstory between beth and them...whew boy beth is a industrial bully...Love their games (As long as theres open modder support) but Bethesda is acting like a D- student going home proud to momma cause it wasn't an F lately. At this point if you want to account to the improvments that could of been made....Bethesda should have kept the Native developers around, for backing....especially with the core groupies.....At least I will give bethesda the grace of goodwill cause they do opt for full modding support....otherwise I am pretty sure they would honestly be a dead company real talk.

[AeonsLegend]

Oh. Lets not forget the NPC settler actors randomly teleporting up onto rooftops during cell reset.

How many of us have seen the roof brahmin?

That only happens if you build something on the settlement spawn point. Look them up and avoid that build area. I think there's two settlements in vanilla that have this issue. Sanctuary is one of them as the spawn point is inside the house with the workshop. The game then picks the highest ground usually to spawn something, but sometimes it doesn't and spawns them in the house. When spawning something the game doesn't know what the ground is. This is also why it's also good to use concrete base floors in places like for instance the Starlight Drive In if you want to level the building area. I once built the entire area with floors on stilts and then ended up with settlers being spawned underneath the floor. This doesn't happen with the concrete wooden foundation.

[StormWolf01]

 

Oh. Lets not forget the NPC settler actors randomly teleporting up onto rooftops during cell reset.

How many of us have seen the roof brahmin?

That only happens if you build something on the settlement spawn point. Look them up and avoid that build area. I think there's two settlements in vanilla that have this issue. Sanctuary is one of them as the spawn point is inside the house with the workshop. The game then picks the highest ground usually to spawn something, but sometimes it doesn't and spawns them in the house. When spawning something the game doesn't know what the ground is. This is also why it's also good to use concrete base floors in places like for instance the Starlight Drive In if you want to level the building area. I once built the entire area with floors on stilts and then ended up with settlers being spawned underneath the floor. This doesn't happen with the concrete wooden foundation.

 

That actually make sense as those same brahmin have been known to get stuck inside the house.

Tho, the actual placement OF that spawner doesn't make any sense.

But good to know. Thanks much for sharing that info to me Aeons :)

[StormWolf01]

I have been playing Bethesda games since the dawn of time lol....One thing about F04, You are right the pipe guns are scrap....and the cartoon look killed me, there was plenty of room for improvment towards, the original look....But that is the thing the biggest key concept and difference in my opinion. Fallout series was bought up by bethesda it's not their native baby....their vision is different....and definitely different than FNV's Devs....Which if you read the backstory between beth and them...whew boy beth is a industrial bully...Love their games (As long as theres open modder support) but Bethesda is acting like a D- student going home proud to momma cause it wasn't an F lately. At this point if you want to account to the improvments that could of been made....Bethesda should have kept the Native developers around, for backing....especially with the core groupies.....At least I will give bethesda the grace of goodwill cause they do opt for full modding support....otherwise I am pretty sure they would honestly be a dead company real talk.

Most likely because they rely on modders to fix their broken games.

Why pay developers a hourly wage to do something that they can rely on the community to do for free.

It takes away from the money they pay their lawyers to do more dirty deeds, and keep them from getting their pants sued off.