Nerevarine, 7th Champion of Cyrodiil & Dragonborn

[luzburg]

Of coarse in a fight the Dragonborn wins hands down because all she needs to do is "Fuz Ro Rah" and CoC and Nerevarine go flying off the cliff to there pitiful deaths.

 

Levitate, Slowfall, Recall... Nerevarine has lots of ways out of falling to his death.

 

 

In all fairness you can't use spells that were removed in later games as a reason for one or the other being stronger. We have to presume that all three would have access to the most powerful spells/items of Tamriel as well as their own inherent abilities. Otherwise we can simply say the Dragonborn has abused smithing/alchemy/enchanting to ungodly proportions and is now stronger than all the gods combined. It can't work that way or this thread goes nowhere.

 

The Dragonborn can simply freeze the Nerevarine solid before nudging him/her off the cliff.

[imperistan]

That presumes that the Nerevarine would be so weak that he would be affected by that shout. After all, not all creatures can be frozen, so I imagine that if your'e a particularly powerful person you can break the freeze or just resist it entirely.

[luzburg]

That presumes that the Nerevarine would be so weak that he would be affected by that shout. After all, not all creatures can be frozen, so I imagine that if your'e a particularly powerful person you can break the freeze or just resist it entirely.

 

 

I'm not well up on Morrowinds story to be honest. Is he a god, or just a mortal with a gods backing? Because a gods backing can't be taken into account or you can grant the CoC the full support of the Nine as well as his daedric inheritance. Same with the dragonborn who is blessed by akatosh, following in Tiber Sepim's footsteps.

[Lachdonin]

as well as his daedric inheritance.

 

First, again, he doesn't have daedric inheritance. He became Sheogorath, at which point he stopped being the CoC entirely.

 

Second, the blessings of the Divine don't generally give you much of an advantage. Even then, the Nerevarine had the support of many of the Nine as well, including the only known one-on-one interaction with a post-Divine Talos.

 

Third, the Nerevarine is not a god, no, nor is he a champion of a god. Though he can stil be considered divine, as in the TES universe 'Divine' is a particular level of entity, which includes the Daedra. Because of the Nerevarine's place as Azura's all-time favorite dolly (thats a referance of another thread, on the Beth forums...) he's at least on the same level as the Dragonborn in terms of divinity. Which, again, is still ahead of the CoC.

 

Fourth, We know that the power of the Voice isn't all consuming. The Nords used it to invate Resdayn (Morrowind) in the first era, and were defeated by none other than Nerevar. We also know that some powerful creatures, such as Draugr Overlords, are only staggered by many of the most powerful shouts. Since Nerevar's soul is what powers the Nerevarine, we should be safe in assuming he would fare better against the Voice than your average bandit.

 

Now, because the CoC is NOT a Daedric Prince (for reasons already outlined... repeatedly) and we know that even divine champions with the Artefacts of the Nine aren't all powerful (and the CoC is not divine), he really can't be seen as in the running. He certinaly completed greater things, in contrast, because he had no innate advantages, but that still doesn't make him a match for them in single combat.

 

Finally, if we assume that everyone has access to the same spells, we'd be looking at an Oblivon style magic/enchanting system, with the spell repitoir from Morrowind. Which means Levitate, slowfall, mark and recall would still all be in play.

[Dudeman325]

Anyways, they are all the same. A purple haired girl from Hammerfell who's far more interessted in sneaking away with glittery things then red mountains, firey gates or oversized reptiles. :P

Pretty much exactly this. They are all, in one way or another, essentially "aspects" of Lorkhan, just like The Many Faced Talos. They are anyone you can make in character creation, a whole lot of people that are different people but the "same thing." There's a reason why YOU are always the Nerevarine, or the Champion, or the Dragonborn. Its not just because beth wants to make a game where you are the hero. They are all infused with essentially this same divine power, split up into thousands of facets.

 

Its all Dragon Breaks and other such nonsense...

Edited December 15, 2012 by Dudeman325

[CasperTheLich]

one of my coc's from TESIV was also one of my dragonborn in TESV. thought that would add some roleplaying potential. so how would you classify that in this discussion?

[Dudeman325]

Maybe Lorkhan infused enough energy into a mortal to allow a similar (or nearly exactly the same, some Mer live very long lives) mortal to exist across multiple (or the same) timelines (sometimes referred to as kalpas). Akatosh probably had a hand in it too. Nothing is entirely concrete in the lore of the Elder Scrolls, and I think the Aedra and Daedra can teach us a lot about this.

 

There's a reason why the Champion of Cyrodiil fights Umaril the Unfeathered in Knights of the Nine. He/She is essentially mantling Lorkhan (through Pelinal Whitestrake) in the same way as the Nerevarine did through Nerevar, and the Dragonborn through Talos.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Dudeman325

[luzburg]

Maybe Lorkhan infused enough energy into a mortal to allow a similar (or nearly exactly the same, some Mer live very long lives) mortal to exist across multiple (or the same) timelines (sometimes referred to as kalpas). Akatosh probably had a hand in it too. Nothing is entirely concrete in the lore of the Elder Scrolls, and I think the Aedra and Daedra can teach us a lot about this.

 

There's a reason why the Champion of Cyrodiil fights Umaril the Unfeathered in Knights of the Nine. He/She is essentially mantling Lorkhan (through Pelinal Whitestrake) in the same way as the Nerevarine did through Nerevar, and the Dragonborn through Talos.

 

BUT.. Nerevar was not a god.

[Dudeman325]

If he wasn't a god, why did he have his own Cult, just like Lorkhan, or the Dragons? (A slightly worse example, but that brings to mind Lorkhan's somewhat shaky relationship with Akatosh) Lorkhan isn't worshipped like the other Divines, but is usually worshipped in some way or another through Mortal Men, or in some cases through the Chimer/Dunmer or even other Mer. Nerevar may not have been exactly one of the Divines, but neither are Pelinal or Talos (at least according to some, Lorkhan finding godhood again is something that some people don't like).

 

Edit: There are many aspects of Nerevar's life that are very similar to Lorkhan's existence / non-existance, same with Talos, and Pelinal, and most other mortals.

Edited December 15, 2012 by Dudeman325

[luzburg]

If he wasn't a god, why did he have his own Cult, just like Lorkhan? Lorkhan isn't worshipped like the other Divines, but is usually worshipped in some way or another through mortals, or in some cases through the Chimer/Dunmer or even other Mer. Nerevar may not have been exactly one of the Divines, but neither are the Champion or Dragonborn.

 

Talos is a divine. Sheogorath is a Deadra.

 

Nerever was a general who got murdered and may or may not have been reborn. It was those who killed him that became godlings.