[REQ].223 Pistol

[CFriis87]

I think I've managed to make a sketch of a real world workable .223 pistol with similar design, I'll upload a scan sometime tomorrow as it is now well past 3 am here.

[melkson]

if one actually looked at that bolt-action, you'd realize that trying to chamber a round in it would just leave around 75% of the cartridge hanging out of the front of the gun. There is no barrel/chamber fitted to it.

 

That depends. The 'silver' piece on the side may not actually be the entire bolt, just a guide and cover plate for when the round is in place.

 

From the looks of the gun, it's a 5 shot revolver, AND a bolt action .223 sawed off. If somebody ever implements 'Fire Modes' type mod, this would be very useful. Honestly, I'd rather have a 12gauge single shot on top, and the revolver under it.

[CFriis87]

if one actually looked at that bolt-action, you'd realize that trying to chamber a round in it would just leave around 75% of the cartridge hanging out of the front of the gun. There is no barrel/chamber fitted to it.

 

That depends. The 'silver' piece on the side may not actually be the entire bolt, just a guide and cover plate for when the round is in place.

 

From the looks of the gun, it's a 5 shot revolver, AND a bolt action .223 sawed off. If somebody ever implements 'Fire Modes' type mod, this would be very useful. Honestly, I'd rather have a 12gauge single shot on top, and the revolver under it.

It only has one barrel. It can't possibly be both a revolver and sawed off rifle... even less a revolver and single-shot 12 gauge. The cartridge would be hanging out of the barrel since the chamber for the cartridge will always have to be in front of the magazine... those two parts can't overlap, or the feeding mechanism wouldn't work.

 

As I promised, here's my sketch of how I'd imagine one could make a working version of this gun by simply making it longer to allow for both bolt-action feeding mechanism, magazine or revolver-drum, chamber and barrel. I did my best to scale the drawing to my hand and came away rather successful in that endeavor. I also tried laying my airsoft Hi-Capa 5.1" and found that my design for the .223 pistol was only about 20% longer that (about the equivalent of a Hi-Capa with an 7" barrel, which doesn't exist but isn't entirely unrealistic). It is of course quite a bit chunkier than the Hi-Capa 5.1" and a real working .223 pistol of this design would likely be pretty damn heavy.

I tried to come up with a way to make a revolver drum work with bolt-action and .223 ammo, and while the mechanism I've thought up would be impractical at it's absolute best, making an entirely magazine fed version should be easy if only there's enough room for the bolt action feeding system in the back of the gun.

 

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e261/CFriis/223pistoljpg.jpg

[Wreckless1]

if one actually looked at that bolt-action, you'd realize that trying to chamber a round in it would just leave around 75% of the cartridge hanging out of the front of the gun. There is no barrel/chamber fitted to it.

 

That depends. The 'silver' piece on the side may not actually be the entire bolt, just a guide and cover plate for when the round is in place.

 

From the looks of the gun, it's a 5 shot revolver, AND a bolt action .223 sawed off. If somebody ever implements 'Fire Modes' type mod, this would be very useful. Honestly, I'd rather have a 12gauge single shot on top, and the revolver under it.

 

Of course it *LOOKS* like that, they put a .222's action on top of a functioning revolver with a huge bodykit and a bunch of other crap BECAUSE ITS A FREAKING HOLLYWOOD PROP GUN.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that the bolt might be the chamber, in whole or in part? Seriously? Have you ever taken a real gun apart before?

Nevermind the idea of firing 12 gauge from a handgun. Please, find a pistol that shoots 12 gauge and post video of you shooting it- I promise it'll be funny.

 

 

 

CFriis87, I can truly appreciate the thought you put into that drawing, I'm glad you're actually thinking about the mechanics behind how it might work. Thinking like that is what leads to true genius and I hope you keep it up!

 

But there's a few big problems with your idea. While making a mechanism to rotate the revolver cylinder as you pull and operate a bolt wouldn't be difficult, you're using a rimless .223 round and expecting it to stay in place inside a cylinder just by floating around in that space loose, and it'd have to be loose, or at least keywayed on one side of the cylinder's "chamber" so that the bolt could have an extractor claw that would pull the spent cartridge casing out of the firing chamber.

Secondly, you're only allowing a couple inches of barrel at most for a cartridge designed for a full-length rifle barrel. There's going to be a significant loss of velocity because of the short barrel, as well as a *huge* muzzle flash.

 

And finally, what possible advantage would it have to make a pistol require such an elaborate system to make a bolt-action handle operate a revolving cylinder after each shot?

You could simply CNC a 6 or 7 shot .223 cylinder that took care of headspacing and everything on its own accord, and use full moon clips to hold the ammunition together to allow for easy & fast ejection from the cylinder, and otherwise mimic a typical S&W style double/single action revolver and have a much simpler and more reliable mechanism, that was lighter, easier to maintain, and also allowed for a much longer barrel with the same overall length of the weapon.

 

In the future if you draw up stuff like that, keep asking yourself how you could make it simpler and accomplish the same function. The simpler the mechanism, the easier it is to make it smaller, lighter, and more reliable.

[jaysus]

lol... complaining about a bolt action that doesnt work and suggesting a 12gauge...

but why shouldnt a hand gun with 2 barrels work? there are enough such pieces irl that have 2 or 3 barrels...

an the system would even work if just the barrel would be longer or the bolt shorter, tho not very accurate

and vash would change the bolt to the other side as he suggested... or the user is a lefty... it would even be thinkable to allow the bolt ot be turned in both directions... (well hard ingame of course but irl that is)

 

as to removing it and just chambering the gun with .22... noooo! thats boring! and uncool... yo uwouldnt believe how much youd impress a bunch of thugs with your bolt action during a fire fight... just looking at you putting that big bullet inside and locking it would make most frenzy and run for their lives... i assume but i could be wrong lol

[NKWOODRUFF]

"Nevermind the idea of firing 12 gauge from a handgun. Please, find a pistol that shoots 12 gauge and post video of you shooting it- I promise it'll be funny."

 

Meh, such things exist, the Le Mat pistol was a .42 revolver with a 16gauge shotgun barrel underneath for the whole double revolver malarkey. And for silly pistol calibers we turn too the Howda Pistol which came in calibers such as .577, 12 gauge and even .75 pistols :blink: they saw general use amongst hunters and the like in British India and Africa, a 'last resort' weapon if you will but used nontheless

[jaysus]

looks a bit smal to chamber 12 gauge... but who knows... man invented so many strange weapons... the effectiveness doesnt seem to be very good nevertheless as they aint used anymore afaik

you wouldnt use a blunderbuss anymore if you could take an ar10 would you?

[Wreckless1]

"Nevermind the idea of firing 12 gauge from a handgun. Please, find a pistol that shoots 12 gauge and post video of you shooting it- I promise it'll be funny."

 

Meh, such things exist, the Le Mat pistol was a .42 revolver with a 16gauge shotgun barrel underneath for the whole double revolver malarkey. And for silly pistol calibers we turn too the Howda Pistol which came in calibers such as .577, 12 gauge and even .75 pistols :blink: they saw general use amongst hunters and the like in British India and Africa, a 'last resort' weapon if you will but used nontheless

 

Please don't tell me that you think the old blackpowder 16 gauge muzzleload specs intended for use in the LeMat is anything remotely comparable in power to modern smokeless 2 3/4 inch 12 gauge shells.

Same goes for the old muzzleloader Howdas and even old bigass rifles like .45-110 - old blackpowder cartridges were considerably weaker than smokeless counterparts and focused on throwing more lead instead of high muzzle velocities. Just because it has a huge bore diameter doesn't mean its more powerful.

There is the noteable exception, though, of the REALLY BIG old safari guns like 8 bore and 4 bore rifles - that stuff is utterly nuts and there's a reason they never got very popular.

 

The final point is that just because someone actually built the damn thing doesn't mean its smart, practical or effective. Look at the .45-70/.410 *Derringers* that have been made for goodness sake. Another good example is the very old and too-powerful-for-their-own good Mars pistols built around the turn of the 20th century.

 

 

And if you don't believe me, find a pistol-grip-only pump 12 gauge, load a modern 2 3/4 inch shell of your choice into it, and try firing it one-handed from a standing position and tell me what YOU think about a 12 gauge pistol.

 

 

Edit:

 

PS - I love your avatar, that's one of my favorite pictures of Churchill.

[melkson]

Hey, if we can have plasma and gauss weapons, we can have anything. Remember the original 'blade runner' pistol had 2 triggers, not 1, and I guessing each trigger was for each action.

 

however even if the top area COULD chamber a .223 round, accuracy would be non-existent. Great penetration power, yes. But at any range it could hit consistently, I think some kind of shotgun round would be just as effective (except against heavily armored opponents). As FO3 currently has no Armor penetration factors, this seems like a moot point.

 

And no, I have never fired a 12g one handed, but have fired a 20g break action pistol before. not the same I know, but I can only go with things I do know. I also have fired a .50 revolver, but it was an old replica that had to be hand loaded, and may not have had full powder load, as I didn't load it.

[vashts1985]

wreckless1: you would not happen to be able to provide a pic of a .44 mag and a .223 remington standing next to each other for a size comparison would ya? :whistling: