MP7

[BulletSix]

That is a VERY pretty gun. ^.^

 

well ... what did you expect? It´s an H&K ;) :D

[Ronin4444]

ok maybe not to replace the SMG, i would say MP5 k to be exact replacement of SMG but thats too common plus i think the way they hold that type of weapon is incorrect only in the action movies do u see then fire this one handed

 

http://world.guns.ru/smg/hk_mp5ka4.jpg

 

 

here's one we can use to plug the gap between SMG and AR, although still very much in the SMG class it can fire Vash's .45 ACP

 

introducing the H&K UMP

 

http://www.hk-usa.com/images/products/law_enforcement/ump/general/ump_03.jpg

[BulletSix]

while were at it *g* :

http://www.hk-usa.com/rifles_usc_general.html

 

USC: .45 ACP, 16-inch barrel (15.98), weight 6 pounds, 10 rounds mag (civilian rifle)

[Wreckless1]

Having fired the gambit of H&K MP5's as well as the UMP in .45 ACP (the one pictured is the 9mm version, not .45) I vastly prefer the MP5/10 to the UMP or any of the 9mm MP5 offerings. The MP5/10 of course is the MP5 in 10mm Auto and was designed specifically for the FBI after the FBI had their hearts set on 10mm auto - and after 10mm proved to be too much for a lot of agents to handle, they reduced the bullet weight and powder charge and thus the 10mm 'FBI Lite' round was born.

Then some clever folks figured out you could trim 4mm off the casing length and then fit it into a 9mm frame. Thus the .40 S&W was born, and later how the MP5/40 came to be. This is also why my Father and I sometimes jokingly refer to .40 S&W as 'Forty short & wimpy', since we're huge fans of the 10mm Auto :) But despite the reduced loadings for handguns most MP5/10's in the FBI arsenal continued to be fed full-house 10mm, at least, from what I've been told.

 

In my experience also I vastly prefer 10mm as an SMG round over .45 ACP, or 9mm, or .40 S&W - it has a flatter trajectory so its much more effective at range, while still packing all the punch (and in some cases significantly more punch) of the .45 ACP. I do like .45 ACP, hell a .45 is what sleeps in my nightstand - but ballistically its about as close to an old 18th century musket ball as you can find in modern use. Compared to just about every other cartridge, a .45 ACP's bullet drops like a Fat Man at any kind of distance.

 

But there's more than caliber as to why I dislike the UMP and its cousin the USC. Sure, they shoot well and function well, but they just don't have that ineffable sense of solidity that I get from any of the older steel-receiver roller locked HK's like the MP5, G3, or HK33.

To me (and a great many others I've spoken to) the UMP was a solution to a problem that didn't exist - a simplification of an MP5 that seems to work just as well on paper but simply fails to perform in that way that so utterly inspires confidence for which the MP5 series became legendary. Its entire reason for being born & trying to replace the MP5 was simply a matter of production costs & marketing.

 

Oh, and so long as we're talking about 9mm, you can certainly fire an MP5K one-handed. I have done it several times. I've even double-fisted Ingram MAC-10's with 9mm uppers installed, just to prove to someone else at that MG shoot that it could be done :D. Controlling the recoil is kinda like those high-pressure pistol-shaped hose nozzles people use for washing cars and such - that instant you open it it shoves back just a teensy bit.

The recoil from one-handing an MAC 10 in 9mm or a Glock 18 is very much the same, only with a lot more 'shove' to compensate for. MP5K's are a bit trickier since the muzzle is so up and far away from the pistol grip, it almost has a levering effect and so its a bit harder to keep on target while shooting one-handed when compared to other designs. M-11's in .380 ACP are positively easy to fire one-handed because of the lower power of the .380 ACP.

Also UZI's are actually surprisingly easy to control one-handed, especially the full size UZI. Honestly if there's one SMG design that doesn't get nearly enough credit, its the UZI. They are utterly simple to maintain and keep running and the bolt design is such that the muzzle climb on full auto is much easier to control than many comparable SMG's. Honestly, if I were to take a girlfriend to the range and hand her any machine gun for the first time, my two preferences would be either the 9mm full size UZI or the MP5SD4. Both are total pussycats even on full auto and are very easy for a novice to *safely* enjoy.

 

So yeah... MP5 > UMP > MP7. :)

[Ronin4444]

the reason i chose that pic of the UMP was coz all other pics had the fore-grip then ppl would be yelling that there is no animation for holing the fore-grip...

 

how about this

 

http://www.ambient.ca/cpunk/nuguns/mp9slim.gif

 

and this is your 10mm MP5

 

http://www.hkpro.com/image/mp5-10.jpg

 

the problem i have with the MP5 is that its everywhere dont we wanna see something new n different...

 

now 1 of my all time favorites, i'm sure not even wreckless can deny this is a kickass weapon

 

 

"drumroll" feast ur eyes

 

The G36 c

 

http://www.hkpro.com/image/g36cangle.jpg

 

http://www.hkpro.com/image/g36cfire.jpg

 

comparison G36 on top and G36c at the bottom

 

http://www.hkpro.com/image/g36ccomparison.jpg

 

it just oozes style

 

http://www.surplusandadventure.com/images/product/main/g36_c.jpg

[Wreckless1]

G36!!!

 

LMAO @ the MP5 photochop with the grip-housed magazine.. the cartridge would be almost 45 degrees off of the barrel in that picture!

While it wasn't common the MP5K could be ordered with the bare SP89 fore-end, and thus not have the forward pistol grip. Seems to me though that it'd be easy enough to simply implement a full-size MP5 and use the rifle animations ;)

 

What's funny is that I was very impressed by the G36 - I had the opportunity to shoot one of the full-size G36's fitted with the dual optical sight as currently issued to the Bundeswehr and I liked it a lot. I kind of wished that I could be dealing with those instead of various M16's all day long.

The M16 has a lot of very real problems with its direct-impingement gas system and those problems are only compounded when the barrel is made shorter, as seen with the M4 and earlier shorties like the XM177 series and such. I could elaborate on these various problems for a long time but I don't want to bore everyone to death lol.

 

The G36 internally looks a lot like an AR18 or Stoner 63, using a proper gas piston much like a Kalashnikov with the much more precise multi-lug bolt design of the M16 family. I truly felt it would be a good improvement over the M16 systems I'm so intimately familiar with.

But after saying all of that in admiration of the G36, Cyvanhoe, a member here on FO3 Nexus that served two years with the Bundeswehr and got trained on both the G3 and the G36, PM'd me and told me that in practice the G36 had some very real problems in harsh weather and that the reflex sight also has problems in rainy weather.

I figured that having the optic integral to the weapon would really simplify things since there's such a huge mix of Elcan's, ACOG's, EOTechs, etc all over service M16's and M4's particularly in the field. Yet after hearing what Cyvanhoe had to say, it makes sense that in practice having a choice of what sight you're using is actually a huge advantage in that you can anticipate the situation you're really facing and gear up accordingly.

 

But regardless, I'm still convinced the G36's gas system is far superior to the M16's just from my dealings with the M16 and my awe at how clean the internals of the G36 were after firing upwards of 500 rounds through it. I was also really impressed with the G36's folding stock, it had a very solid lockup when latched open (which every one of the various folding stocks on AK's seriously lacks) and actually made a difference when folded, unlike the telescoping stock of the various shorty-16's that doesn't really enhance its compactness at all. The only folding stock that is better IMO is the Daewoo K2's folding stock.

Perhaps if a G36 were made with less more metal and composite materials, and fitted with an ejection port cover, a perfect medium could be found between the two families. Though as nice as the G36 is, I still prefer the old roller-locked HK's like the G3, HK33, MP5, etc.

 

Now, honestly I don't find very many modern military guns to be visually attractive. Sure, the tricked-out M4's and G36's and Tavors and F2000's look wicked and sinister, but I'm not particularly attracted to that kind of look for its own sake. In military weapons I only care about effectiveness and reliablity - The prettiest gun on the battlefield, to me, is the one keeps working and working well, and thus saves your life. Sinister looks and tacticoolery don't mean nearly as much to me as a solid, reliable system of operation that is both accurate and debris-tolerant and can deal with a wide range in ammo spec.

[vashts1985]

we might have a g36 sooner or later ;)

[Ronin4444]

we already have G3 n HK33 look just like mp5

 

http://world.guns.ru/assault/hk_g3ka4.jpg

 

http://world.guns.ru/assault/hk33.jpg

 

 

plus how well the weapon functions can all be modified with FO3edit, i can see u wanna keep things as close to real life as possible n that just fine, but when u play COD4 a head shot always means instant kill, just minutes ago i fired a .45 acp round into a raider's head his head was crippled and wat not but not dead this is the type of game world we are facing one that uses skill points and other checks to determine damage and effectiveness not 100% determined on bullet caliber, so if some1 makes a high quality G36c i'll make sure it atleast as good as the "Chinese Assault rifle" just to keep things in balance...

 

Vash said: we might have a g36 sooner or later

 

now thats wat i wanna hear!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vashts1985]

id put a g41 in but im sure wreckless1 has some quip on that ;D

[BulletSix]

well what you really model is up to you, of course :)

 

but if i had to choose between H&K G41 and H&K G36, i would choose the G36 ;)