Lichdom

[jack013]

You can fix the twin souls problem by changing the function to 'add' instead of 'set', all the additions and multiplications from various places should stack.

[Deleted5045300User]

Regarding rough ETA:

Probably before Dragonborn lands on the PC.

Well you've got until 5th February then lol. ;)

 

On a more serious note, this thing about the "ancient lich" or "superlich" - one way of doing this is that it could be forbidden knowledge, which can only be found in Apocrypha. Know what I'm getting at?

Of course, I know you want to make this as "vanilla" as possible and have no DLC dependencies but it could work very well.

[kromey]

You can fix the twin souls problem by changing the function to 'add' instead of 'set', all the additions and multiplications from various places should stack.

Aye, I could indeed, however given how many perk overhaul mods there are, and how many that don't quite qualify for that but nonetheless modify Twin Souls, I'm looking for other options for a good boost instead.

 

On a more serious note, this thing about the "ancient lich" or "superlich" - one way of doing this is that it could be forbidden knowledge, which can only be found in Apocrypha. Know what I'm getting at?

I had to Google it, but yeah. Very interesting, that could indeed be an option. As already mentioned I would prefer my mod not be dependent upon any DLC, but this one is really, really tempting -- it's almost too perfect!

[kromey]

Random thoughts:

 

So with having stricken the boost to Destruction and Conjuration schools, I've been looking for alternatives to replace them that are more fitting of the lich, and I think I have them:

 

Resurrection spells are 25% more powerful. This means that e.g. Dead Thrall, which can raise up to level 40 enemies, can now raise enemies up to level 50. The lesser spells would see a similar boost. (This bonus would be identical to -- but stack with -- that granted by the perk Necromage, meaning a lich with Necromage could raise thralls up to level 62.)

Another option is a boost similar to the extra hit points that Dark Souls grants, but what?

 

For Destruction, a new power could be granted to the lich that, while active, boosts all Destruction spells by 50%, but they cost 20% more to cast -- essentially the lich is overcharging its spells. This would have course be a duration power, and it should have some drawback to it; it may also require a good long cool-down -- maybe a once-per-day Greater Power?

 

 

Also, in case anyone has missed it, I'm recruiting authors to write books and such to be included in the mod! Check out the details if you're interested (link's also been added to the OP).

[Zephyr2011]

In regards to the Twin Souls thing, I didn't mean that you should script something that set the limit like twin souls, but rather modified it, which, hopefully, would stack on top of Twin Souls as long as Twin Souls was acquired first. And then you could run checks for whenever the player got Twin Souls so that when the player got that perk it would remove your perk real quick then add it back or something to that effect. I don't see any (logical) reason why that shouldn't work but I can tinker with it a bit.

 

On your bonuses to summons, I was thinking that it'd be really cool if you could make your thralls and such not just "stronger" in terms of health but actually stronger like give them buffs to their actual attacks. I'm not sure if there are parameters to this or if it would cause any conflicts. I'm just spitballing right now so if you like the idea I'll look into it but if not I won't bother.

 

Have you given more thought into whether or not you will incorporate Ancient Liches at some point or another? (it seems like that is definitely on the list for later versions if they appear) If so do you have any thoughts on the process, other than creating a new phylactery/distant phylactery? I have some thoughts on this and I'd love to share them with you. (it's rather long and rambling so I'll spare you for now)

 

I have one of my books about half way done and I'll send it to you when I can.

[kromey]

In regards to the Twin Souls thing, I didn't mean that you should script something that set the limit like twin souls, but rather modified it, which, hopefully, would stack on top of Twin Souls as long as Twin Souls was acquired first. And then you could run checks for whenever the player got Twin Souls so that when the player got that perk it would remove your perk real quick then add it back or something to that effect. I don't see any (logical) reason why that shouldn't work but I can tinker with it a bit.

So you mean create a perk that would e.g. multiply the limit by 2, and then have a script running that would watch for the acquisition of Twin Souls and, when it was acquired, remove and re-add my "multiply-by-2" perk?

 

I tried that (or rather the simulation thereof). It doesn't matter what order the perks are added -- if Twin Souls is in play that perk takes the priority.

 

If you mean modify that value via the script itself, I looked for that first, long before I even thought to check Twin Souls, and I've come up entirely empty on any way to change that limit via a script.

 

On your bonuses to summons, I was thinking that it'd be really cool if you could make your thralls and such not just "stronger" in terms of health but actually stronger like give them buffs to their actual attacks. I'm not sure if there are parameters to this or if it would cause any conflicts. I'm just spitballing right now so if you like the idea I'll look into it but if not I won't bother.

It would indeed be possible. Quite easy, in fact, and exactly how Dark Souls works, namely: create a perk that applies a Resurrection Spell (which is a spell cast on the target of a resurrection as soon as it's resurrected), and have it apply a spell you create that increases your zombie's damage in some way -- e.g. to do extra fire damage with every attack!

 

In fact, the more I think about it the more I think the lich's bonuses should perhaps be more focused on raising undead minions, rather than as spread out as they currently are. I'm thinking I may strike the boost to Illusion, and instead give more boosts to resurrections. Actually, it would be pretty cool to tie some lich abilities to the number of currently-active undead minions, e.g. instead of +100% Magicka regeneration the lich gets +25% Magicka regeneration per controlled undead.

 

Does Command Daedra work on undead minion resurrected by your enemies? Or does it only work on atronachs and other such summons? If the latter, it would be pretty sweet to give the lich a Command Undead spell that temporarily put enemy undead under his control...

 

Have you given more thought into whether or not you will incorporate Ancient Liches at some point or another? (it seems like that is definitely on the list for later versions if they appear) If so do you have any thoughts on the process, other than creating a new phylactery/distant phylactery? I have some thoughts on this and I'd love to share them with you. (it's rather long and rambling so I'll spare you for now)

Ancient Liches are almost certainly going to be included, but much later -- not until after liches are out there and all the bugs have been sorted will I begin ironing out what they'll be like. I do know that (part of) the process to become one will involve the creation of a second phylactery, which will be a distant one (most likely required to be kept in a specially-prepared area); I also know that upon becoming an Ancient Lich you'll gain very little if any in power, however you will begin to be able to unlock different pathways of power to enhance and focus your abilities in one direction or another -- e.g. become a better melee fighter, or improve your Illusion spells, etc. Each pathway will have multiple steps, with each one unlocking new benefits of that path, however they will all be mutually exclusive, meaning if you start down another pathway you will immediately lose all progress you made down the first.

 

That said, despite "knowing" this, it's all in wild flux, and I don't expect to be solidifying anything about them for quite some time yet.

[TheUninvitedGuest]

One nice buff that you might consider:

 

In the lore it mentions that after Mannimarco made the transformation to a Lich, his blood was "as acid".

 

You could have some minor poison effect (and the chance of a stagger) applied to all enemies who score a melee hit on the Player character.

 

I completely understand the need for balance, but it feels like that kind of effect could be fun.

 

Edit: I also really like the Idea of the Phylactery being forged at the lunar forge. To make the ritual even harder - do you think it could be done under the light of the "necromancers moon" ?

 

The lore says the following: "The Revenant, the Necromancer's Moon, watches over us all. His Form, ascended to Godhood, has taken its rightful place in the sky, and hides the enemy Arkay from us so that we may serve Him. Watch for the signs: when the heavenly light descends from above, hasten to His altars and make your offering, so that He may bless you with but a taste of His true power."

 

By looking at the bloodcursed arrow script in Dawnguard I imagine it would be possible to apply some kind of green filter to a moon (though I could be wrong).

 

As I understand it the Necromancer's moon is the heavenly form of Mannimarco ascended to Godhood - I know you killed him in Oblivion, but if he was a God, then perhaps you didn't fully do so (a la Alduin) ?

[skulleris]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N0jaxb94Fc

[Zephyr2011]

On the Revenant: (just for Lore's sake, not a big deal by any means) it once was the god form of Mannimarco created during the "Warp in the West" or the "Dragon Break" when Mannimarco used the Mantella, a vessel containing Zurin Arctus's soul (which made Arctus a lich), to ascend to godhood as Revenant the god of necromancers and the necromancer's moon. However, Akatosh was not too happy about some arrogant necromancer ascending to godhood and banished Mannimarco from godhood, returning him to Nirn as he was, the priest of worms (so goes the direct quote, he's more commonly referred to as King of Worms). The moon however, was left in its place but holds no essence of Mannimarco's godhood anymore. It does seem to still have some magical properties (according to pre-oblivion lore this doesn't make a lick of sense but the devs wanted to use it for black soul gems and what not in oblivion so to hell with the lore then eh?)

[TheUninvitedGuest]

Sorry... I should have read the lore more carefully. I've been meaning to play oblivion - but Morrowind has me somewhat sidetracked haha.

 

However if the moon still has magical properties perhaps the point still stands.