Form 43

[Wolfstorm]

i use about 20 form 43 mods in my 600+ se mo2 setup. character level 108. my game runs stable. i did many tests with many form 43 mods in sse.

 

 

That's a lot. How many hours? I have a 200 hours playthrough and have been avoiding playing it.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Wolfstorm

[saurusmaximus]

 

 

No need to call for a witch hunt against modders.

 

It's not about a witch-hunt, it's about holding modders responsible for uploading "ports" that haven't been done properly. This especially true for modders that are porting other people's work. I shouldn't have to go through and fix a mod that was supposed have been done properly from the start; and I'm getting really tired of having to do that by the way.

 

 

 

This happens because the engine fixes requires a older version of the CK, which is not available through the Bethesda launcher. If this exe was available in the Nexus, this could help those modders, since to open the CK without the fixes takes up to five minutes, with several error messages, which discourages them to convert the plugins to form 44.

 

So we should accept shoddy work because it takes an extra 5 minutes to load the CK? Seriously?

Also, your point is doubly ridiculous because there is also an engine fix right here on the Nexus that corrects everything you were complaining about.

 

 

yo im not expert ....

...so yes mods with form 43 is giving me random CTDs

, i removed all of them CTDs is gone,

so you removed form 43 mods and ctd are gone. and what does this tell us about form 43 see compatibility ? i clearly say: nothing. you are just assuming but it is much more likely that the mods were buggy or somehow conflicting. how could my game still run without any ctd or faulty save reaching level 108 after 1 year gameplay using about 20 form 43 esp mods ? sure, i experienced ctd - but they were never form 43 related but mod conflicts i could trace and i solved all of them.

 

And your anecdotal experience doesn't prove anything either. I have had experience where converting mods did have a verifiable impact on my game's stability; and before you ask, yes, I know it was that because it was the only thing I changed.

Edit: To clarify, my experience is just as anecdotal as yours. The point I've been trying to make all along is, it takes like 5 minutes to convert mods to form 44, so there no reason for mod authors (or at least, the people posting a mod as "ported") to not do it correctly.

[xrayy]

@saurusmaximus

1. show me an evidence where a clean form 43 esp mod caused a sse ingame ctd. so far i don't know of any. i would like to reproduce it with my setup. so just post the suspicous mod here in the forum. i just would like to see and test such a mod. thanks!

 

2. a comprehensive form 44 conversion is absolutely ok - why not ? - but it only works stable and in a 5 min timeframe if the form 43 mod is clean and has no dirty edits. and this is not always that easy as you think if the mod is not already designed for sse and form 44. apart from that every clean form 43 mod shoud work stable. if not tell me the - proven! - reason why not.

it is better to leave a clean form 43 esp as it is if you don't know what you do and if it works stable. This has nothing to to with "shoddy work". it is just nonsense to change the form just to change the form number while taking the risk of breaking the mod. the only shortcoming of form 43 esp is the fact that you can't switch it to esl format.

 

3. i don't exactly get what you mean with anecdotal experience. i did serious tests with any of my used form 43 mods and i found no gliches in my setup after playing 12 months up tp level 108. so if people claim that there is a reproducable relation between a mod and form 43 resulting in ctd because only of this combination they should prove this! i will support you to prove this but i need a name of a mod to do some independent tests to reproduce your ctd problem! thank you!

 

4. i updated the saturalia christmas mod for skyrim le with an sse addon to make it sse compatible. the update works with the form 43 esp. i describe how to update the script structure and everything works without gliches. you can download it and test it! it works since 14. dec 2019! the quest works and the carolers sing without a glich!

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/30989

[xrayy]

 

i use about 20 form 43 mods in my 600+ se mo2 setup. character level 108. my game runs stable. i did many tests with many form 43 mods in sse.

 

 

That's a lot. How many hours? I have a 200 hours playthrough and have been avoiding playing it.

 

over 12 month.

some mods i already used earlier but they had skse dependencies which caused problems in the skse alpha stage. no problems since skse is stable.

 

i'm still waiting for someone who show me a mod with a reproducable form 43

related ctd in sse. the good thing in mo2 is that you don't have to avoid a mod. just test it. if it works use it, if not deactivate or delete it. that is how it works for me. and i apply this rule on all mods regardless of the used form.

[Wolfstorm]

 

 

 

No need to call for a witch hunt against modders.

 

It's not about a witch-hunt, it's about holding modders responsible for uploading "ports" that haven't been done properly. This especially true for modders that are porting other people's work. I shouldn't have to go through and fix a mod that was supposed have been done properly from the start; and I'm getting really tired of having to do that by the way.

 

 

 

This happens because the engine fixes requires a older version of the CK, which is not available through the Bethesda launcher. If this exe was available in the Nexus, this could help those modders, since to open the CK without the fixes takes up to five minutes, with several error messages, which discourages them to convert the plugins to form 44.

 

So we should accept shoddy work because it takes an extra 5 minutes to load the CK? Seriously?

Also, your point is doubly ridiculous because there is also an engine fix right here on the Nexus that corrects everything you were complaining about.

 

 

This engine fix requires a older version of the CK, which is not available through the Bethesda launcher.

I was only able to use this fix after I downloaded the older exe in a obscure link.

Before it, the CK was taken 5 minutes to load and crashed constantly.

If this exe was available in the Nexus (or at the least the link to it), many modders would be using the CK.

[Wolfstorm]

 

 

i use about 20 form 43 mods in my 600+ se mo2 setup. character level 108. my game runs stable. i did many tests with many form 43 mods in sse.

 

 

That's a lot. How many hours? I have a 200 hours playthrough and have been avoiding playing it.

 

over 12 month.

some mods i already used earlier but they had skse dependencies which caused problems in the skse alpha stage. no problems since skse is stable.

 

i'm still waiting for someone who show me a mod with a reproducable form 43

related ctd in sse. the good thing in mo2 is that you don't have to avoid a mod. just test it. if it works use it, if not deactivate or delete it. that is how it works for me. and i apply this rule on all mods regardless of the used form.

 

 

 

You can check the hours in Wrye Bash, under the saves tab.

This playthrough of 200+ hours, I started in August 2019, if I'm not mistaken.

[xrayy]

@Wolfstorm

i do not use wrye bash. maybe that is the reason my setup works so stable :wink:

it was at least 200 hours including testing.

if you know a mod which is in your opinion incompatible because of form 43 and not because of another reason just post it i will test it. thanks!

i'm open for this theory but i need evidence to believe! so far all my tested form 43 mods work flawlessly in sse. some of them after correcting not form 43 related incompatibilities. all people i asked so far could not give me a mod name to confirm this theory. maybe saurusmaximus can contribute some proven facts this theory is based on.

[xrayy]

another example of a working form 43 esp mod is lunari race.

already 27 people confirmed that the form 43 solution with the the original le race mod work for them.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/35762

[saurusmaximus]

 

 

 

 

No need to call for a witch hunt against modders.

 

It's not about a witch-hunt, it's about holding modders responsible for uploading "ports" that haven't been done properly. This especially true for modders that are porting other people's work. I shouldn't have to go through and fix a mod that was supposed have been done properly from the start; and I'm getting really tired of having to do that by the way.

 

 

 

This happens because the engine fixes requires a older version of the CK, which is not available through the Bethesda launcher. If this exe was available in the Nexus, this could help those modders, since to open the CK without the fixes takes up to five minutes, with several error messages, which discourages them to convert the plugins to form 44.

 

So we should accept shoddy work because it takes an extra 5 minutes to load the CK? Seriously?

Also, your point is doubly ridiculous because there is also an engine fix right here on the Nexus that corrects everything you were complaining about.

 

 

This engine fix requires a older version of the CK, which is not available through the Bethesda launcher.

I was only able to use this fix after I downloaded the older exe in a obscure link.

Before it, the CK was taken 5 minutes to load and crashed constantly.

If this exe was available in the Nexus (or at the least the link to it), many modders would be using the CK.

 

I'm using the current version (1.5.73.0) and it works fine.

[saurusmaximus]

@saurusmaximus

1. show me an evidence where a clean form 43 esp mod caused a sse ingame ctd. so far i don't know of any. i would like to reproduce it with my setup. so just post the suspicous mod here in the forum. i just would like to see and test such a mod. thanks!

 

2. a comprehensive form 44 conversion is absolutely ok - why not ? - but it only works stable and in a 5 min timeframe if the form 43 mod is clean and has no dirty edits. and this is not always that easy as you think if the mod is not already designed for sse and form 44. apart from that every clean form 43 mod shoud work stable. if not tell me the - proven! - reason why not.

it is better to leave a clean form 43 esp as it is if you don't know what you do and if it works stable. This has nothing to to with "shoddy work". it is just nonsense to change the form just to change the form number while taking the risk of breaking the mod. the only shortcoming of form 43 esp is the fact that you can't switch it to esl format.

 

3. i don't exactly get what you mean with anecdotal experience. i did serious tests with any of my used form 43 mods and i found no gliches in my setup after playing 12 months up tp level 108. so if people claim that there is a reproducable relation between a mod and form 43 resulting in ctd because only of this combination they should prove this! i will support you to prove this but i need a name of a mod to do some independent tests to reproduce your ctd problem! thank you!

 

4. i updated the saturalia christmas mod for skyrim le with an sse addon to make it sse compatible. the update works with the form 43 esp. i describe how to update the script structure and everything works without gliches. you can download it and test it! it works since 14. dec 2019! the quest works and the carolers sing without a glich!

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/30989

Your results are anecdotal because you are one guy reporting on your results. If we get a large collection of people, testing a large group of mods, and they can all say definitively that the whole form 44 thing is overblown, I'll happily change my tune. I'm honestly not trying to bust your chops, but I've been around too long to take one person's word for anything.

 

As to your question about me providing evidence to refute your point..well, I can't. My experience was like 3 years ago and at this point I couldn't even tell which mods I was using. My save got to be about 20 hours old and I suddenly started having stability issues. Because they were many of the same mods that I had been running in LE without any trouble, I figured it was because I hadn't converted them over, like everyone was saying you should. I just wanted to play the game, so I didn't take the time to figure out which mod was the problem, I just converted all of them, started over, and the problem went away.