What's the deal with Talos and the Thalmor?

[RighthandofSithis]

I think it was more due to the fact that Talos was once a "human" mortal(Tiber Septim) and the Thalmor being the Altmer supremists that they are absolutely refuse to accept the idea that a member of an inferior race(the Nords) could become such a supreme existance. Also Talos destroyed the original Aldmeri Dominion using the Numidium at the end of the second era. My information comes from www.uesp.net which collects as much lore in all of the Elder Scrolls games as possible. Just about every known book in all the games can be found there.

 

That's the mundane version, the one I prefer. However, MK (the source of the weird nature of the TES universe), has implied that the Thalmor wish to undo creation by eradicating Talos Worship.

 

MK?

 

Michael Kirkbride, the source of just about everything in the Elder Scrolls universe, particularly anything which is confusing or gibberish.

 

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/General:Michael_Kirkbride

[SupremeEpicness]

Most things I want to say have been said already but just to point some things out.

 

Talos is (still) the most powerful divine, not only that he is the most powerful being period

The Thalmor killed everyone one non elven descent on the summerset isle (alinor).

No one can defeat the thalmor (except talos). They are the most powerful force on tamriel and the human nations (the one that would want to stop the thalmor) all hate each other (except cyrodiil and highrock but in a war they can't help each other much)

The zero stone in the adamantine tower is the only thing holding back the thalmor

Not important but talos was a nede not a nord (this is why he is talos of atamora)

[CursedEagle]

I'd say that the Thalmor are scared of Talos, because he has divine power and is the strongest of the Nine, and that they want to eradicate his worship from Skyrim because they fear that there might be an uprising of sorts, just my thinking...

[ArcieAdam]

These are interesting theories, but I had a hypothesis that's entirely strategic, and not philosophical in the least.

 

From what I pieced together in game, the Thalmor seem to be following a very classic divide and conquer ruse designed to weaken the Empire for their next invasion. The Thalmor lost the captured Imperial City thanks to the combined might of Hammerfell, Skyrim, and Titus Mede II's main army that fled the city earlier that year. By banning the worship of Talos, they instigated a civil war in Skyrim, both focusing the legion's attention north, and not south where it belongs, and eliminating a good chunk of the predominantly Nord portion of the legion, who rebelled and joined the Stormcloaks.

 

For the same reason, the Thalmor demanding the southern coastline of Hammerfell in the White-Gold concordat forced the empire to renounce Hammerfell, or risk throwing the treaty off the table. The Thalmor have effectively reduced the Empire's forces by two thirds, making their next invasion easy pickings.

[BrettM]

By banning the worship of Talos, they instigated a civil war in Skyrim

Your statement makes the ban sound like a new strategy the Thalmor came up with after losing the Battle of the Red Ring. However, the ban was part of the package of Thalmor demands presented to the Empire before the war even began. I think it's pretty clear that this is part of the Thalmor agenda for reasons other than weakening the Empire for a new invasion following their loss of a war they expected to win.

[ArcieAdam]

By banning the worship of Talos, they instigated a civil war in Skyrim

Your statement makes the ban sound like a new strategy the Thalmor came up with after losing the Battle of the Red Ring. However, the ban was part of the package of Thalmor demands presented to the Empire before the war even began. I think it's pretty clear that this is part of the Thalmor agenda for reasons other than weakening the Empire for a new invasion following their loss of a war they expected to win.

 

True, they did present those terms right before the war, but there's a difference between accepting a treaty at the point of a Thalmor sword, and accepting a treaty after a lengthy war. The Thalmor like to think ahead, I wouldn't be surprised if they planted every contingency possible to ensure the Empire's downfall. They would have no problem with a war that lasted a century, being fought in multiple stages.

 

I just imagine the Thalmor as crafty warmongers, who know strategy and tactics. I can't see why they would want to ban Talos worship because of ideological differences. It's not worth their time to spend agents enforcing the ban, when they're the type of people to rely of espionage and coups to overthrow regimes and use their armies to pick off the remainder. Besides, I can't see the Thalmor as scenery chewing villains. Only the nihilistic monsters want to destroy creation. Even evil dictators have a vested interest in not having the world destroyed.

Edited January 15, 2013 by ArcieAdam

[Rooker75]

Religious wars don't have to make sense. In fact, the less sense the conflict makes, the likelier it is it will spark a war.

 

It's just religious persecution with the Thalmor. Someone added a new god to the existing roster and they are offended by the change, so they're just doing what the religious do when they're offended.

Edited January 16, 2013 by Rooker75

[ArcieAdam]

Religious wars don't make sense because we tend to view them in the context of a religious war. Usually, religious undertones of a large scale conflict are just a means to incite the people, and are a front to much darker motives, like territory acquisition, genocide, and the like.

 

I'm interested though where it says the Thalmor want to destroy reality, or any sort of source that makes a claim like that, I'd like to read up on that. But, it's worth mentioning the Thalmor in the fourth era rose from a small political faction, so it's entirely possible that they don't share the views of their ancestors.

[huntsman2310]

I'm guessing Hermaeus Mora would probably know, but then again he is constantly on the hunt for secrets which he gets from the mortal world by manipulating events in his favour. I guess this secret has still eluded him.

 

Didn't the Thalmor want to stop Talos worship because his power is what holds the physical realm together and by unmaking it they'll return to being ageless beings again?

 

Its a pretty stupid plan, I reckon only the leaders of the Thalmor would truly believe in that nonsense.

[BrettM]

I can't see why they would want to ban Talos worship because of ideological differences. It's not worth their time to spend agents enforcing the ban

Yet they do exactly that. Find the Talos shrine in the woods near Riverwood to learn of the actions of one such agent. Ondolemar in Markarth tries to recruit you to gather evidence against a suspected Talos worshipper. In one branch of the Civil War story you can blackmail Jarl Igmund's steward by finding evidence of his Talos worship and threatening to turn it over to the Thalmor. Nords have good reason to fear being denounced to the Thalmor inquisition for practicing the "heresy" of worshipping Talos.

 

The Thalmor put a great deal of effort into hunting down the remnants of the Blades to the last individual, going far beyond eliminating them as an operational threat. Why? Because the organization was intimately associated with Tiber Septim, and they were Talos worshippers. Acilius Bolar, one of the last, fled to an ancient Blade's sanctuary (Bloated Man's Grotto), where he left his sword and his writ in front of a statue of Talos before going out to die to prevent the Thalmor from desecrating the shrine.

 

I think it's pretty clear that ideology is at work here, not just crafty warmongering.