GOP Electoral College Power Play

[HeyYou]

Ooops, you are quite right. Two years..... I must not be paying enough attention to my elections. :D

 

We can vote out our reps in two or four years (house or senate), but, incumbents are usually the ones running for our chosen party come election time. I haven't seen more than one dem, or repub, on the ticket in quite some time. In addition, sure, we can vote for someone else, but, we end up with the same thing. They promise us one thing when campaigning, but, deliver something different once elected. I have seen it happen way too many times. So long as big money is involved, voting has very little relevance for the common man.

 

A fair percentage of our production has been moved overseas, along with a startling number of technical jobs. (phone support for example.) Free trade has given producers the opportunity to manufacture their products at a fraction the wage cost, and NO cost for benefits (as there aren't any), little or no environmental or worker protections..... and they have done so. We don't get better quality products, we get throwaway products, that lack in quality. This has become endemic to our society. Products that used to be made here, by americans..... aren't any more. Since corps don't have to pay imort taxes on items they produce elsewhere..... they make more profits, sell more products (at very slightly reduced prices.....) which have to be replaced more often..... Since these jobs are going to third world nations, where even making a few bucks per DAY is a significant increase in their income..... they are lining up for the jobs. (or, they are simply told "This is where you are going to work" by their government......) American workers can't compete with that. Therefore, their jobs go away, unemployment rises, the government spends more money on that, and then health benefits in the form of medicaid, as well as things like food stamps, rent susbsidies, and a host of other things these folks USED to pay for themselves, and then there is also the lost tax revenue the government ISN'T getting from them..... The folks that benefit most are the high end management that get their multi-million dollar bonuses every year, and, of course, any stockholders that happen to be around. For a majority of americans, this is bad news. But, for the folks with the money, it's great. These are the same folks with the money to throw around during election time, contribute to campaigns, and pretty much can determine who runs, and who gets elected. Once again, money and politics makes a bad mix. Throw in on top of that Tax Breaks for moving jobs to developing nations....... and you have corporations with every motivation to move jobs overseas, and zero incentive to stay. Doesn't seem to matter to them that they are undermining their own consumer base. Hard to sell products to folks that don't have jobs.

 

Free Trade with third world nations is bad news for the american worker, it's bad for the government, and in the end, it will be bad for the corporations as well. But, since it seems that the only thing that is important is "how much money can I make RIGHT NOW", and nobody seems to give two hoots or a holler for the future..... we have been bleeding jobs for quite some time now. We have not been replacing them with similar paying jobs. The REAL unemployment numbers are going up. (even though the government manipulated number is going down....) Yes, I completely agree with you on that point. I am just not surprised that the government is basically lying to us to make us think they are actually DOING something.

 

But..... I think we are WAY off-topic here...... wasn't that something about republicans? :D

 

Right now, the republicans are scrambling to redefine themselves. To me.... it looks a lot like they are redefining themselves as democrats... what with the 'path to citizenship', gay marriage, and whatnot. Next, you will see them jumping on the 'gun control' bandwagon. (heaven forbid.....) It's hard to say just what the GOP is going to turn out as, when they don't even have a clue themselves. They are fractured, torn by infighting, dismayed how they could have possibly lost the election, and seem to be clueless that america is just flat out tired of them catering to big business, trickle-down economics, that have been proven NOT to work, etc. They, like the dems.... keep preaching the same old things they have been when it comes to the economy, and foreign policy, and america doesn't wanna hear it anymore. (imagine my surprise when the dems CONTINUED a significant percenatge of GWB's policies....... especially on the foreign front..)

 

In all reality, the dems aren't any better. I keep hearing "most americans support this", yet, when I read comments on various news websites, a huge group of people, that normally don't all agree on ANYTHING, all seem to be able to agree that said topic is NOT what they want to see happen. (primarily immigration reform legalizing the current illegal immigrants.) Even the AP is jumping on the wagon, and discarding the "illegal" immigrant for "undocumented" immigrant. They wouldn't want to offend anyone after all.... I mean, seriously, "illegal" is so stigmatizing....... What a crock of feces.

 

Our government in general is/has going/gone down the tubes. They are not in it for the good of the country, they are in it for THEMSELVES. That will remain the case until such time as we actually get some REAL campaign finance reform, and a few other of my favorite topics. :) (look at my history here, I think I enumerate them several times....) Unfortunately, the only folks that could actually implement such changes, are the very same folks that benefit most from NOT changing them. So, I don't expect anything at all to happen on that score.

[JimboUK]

If governments represented the people rather than those who line their pockets they'd apply import tariffs to goods based on the place of manufacture, not the place where the corporation has it headquarters. The E.U is a perfect example of government representing business rather than people, suffering is being inflicted on millions of people in the south in an effort to protect French and German banks from their bad investments, in Cyprus they've just helped themselves to money in peoples bank accounts all with the blessing of the E.U, the ECB and the IMF.

[HeyYou]

Yeah, something to the tune of 62.5% of some folks accounts over 100K Euro's..... OUCH. That has GOT to annoy some folks, and if they aren't pulling the rest of their money out of those banks, that are stupid, as it WILL happen again.

[MistTiger]

HeyYou, Jim_uk, you both make great points. I am glad that my money, what little that I have, is not in an area that the politicians can dip their hands into it. If I were in any country in the E.U. with fiscal difficulties right now I would be pulling out my money. Banks have to be above this or no one has confidence in them and the whole concept fails. This is the type of underhanded move that made the great depression worse and contributed to the establishment of the FDIC.

 

The US will not solve its jobs problem. Its economy is shrinking and pay and benefits must shrink to match. Just look at the steel and car industries. When others produce things that outsell their US counterparts, US workers cannot expect to continue to have the same level of pay and benefits when their products do not sell. It's basic economics. We need to find products that we have the advantage in and train our workers to produce those products. If we do not, then we will fail as a nation. We cannot continue spending at the same rate that we have in the past. Many countries that were great world powers in the past have went through this and survived. Their influence on the world is greatly reduced from the grandiose position they held when they ruled the world. There are really quite a lot of countries in this category. The US will join them if we don't stop giving away free stuff. Our influence has already greatly diminished from its height in 1945 when we basically were the most powerful country in the world. Our economy was huge, our military unmatched, and we held the atomic bomb. We are no longer there. Sad, but true.

 

The GOP is just like any political party that got their nose bloodied in a political duel. I look back at the pasting that the Dems took in 2010. The GOP wasn't soul searching then, but the Dems sure were. Now the shoe is on the other foot. If anyone thinks that suddenly nearly half of all US voters in 2012 who voted GOP are going to disappear, they are sadly mistaken. Gosh, a six million vote margin in the presidency is hardly a landslide or a rousing vote of confidence considering the number of people who voted. The GOP does need to get its house in order for 2014 and 2016. They probably will. The Dems have failed in 2012 to reverse the stomping they took in the house in 2010. The difference is now that there are a lot of very emotionally charged, divisive issues facing the US now. The GOP needs to advocate the position of their supporters first before they start reinventing themselves. However, they probably need to figure out what that position is before they start advocating it.

 

You are both right in pointing out that neither of you seem to trust your governments. All journeys start small. I have always thought that the electoral college concept was now obsolete. The founding fathers feared mob rule. I think that rewarding candidates based on their percentage of votes garnered in each state now makes every state important. As it stands now, there are solid blue states that are ignored just as there red states that are ignored leaving a situation in which only a handful of states decide who is president. I believe in "One Citizen, One vote". Bring all states to a percentage electoral college option would bring the US closer to direct election of its president. If I were a Dem in a red state, or a Rep in a blue state, I would be unhappy that my opinion was marginalized by the electoral college. I think that the first step in taking back control of our country from political parties, special interest groups, and lobbyists lies in changing the electoral college. There, we have now come full circle and are now back on topic.

 

BTW: I fully support term limits for the US congress of 24 years total for both house and senate service together. No retirement benefits until serving over 10 years. And NO running for office if the end of the term exceeds the 24 year point. That's gives someone a chance to serve their country for a good amount of time, but not become senile in office.

 

Just my Opinion. Cheers!!!! V/R MistTiger

[JimboUK]

Yeah, something to the tune of 62.5% of some folks accounts over 100K Euro's..... OUCH. That has GOT to annoy some folks, and if they aren't pulling the rest of their money out of those banks, that are stupid, as it WILL happen again.

 

Yeah it was peoples life savings, the accounts of SMEs that will now have to close and peoples pension pots. The Russian money they were after was long gone, a lot of them got tipped off as did the politicians. They've avoided a bank run by using capital controls, sadly that stops Cypriots leaving the country in search of a better life because no one can go anywhere without any money. Spain recently changed that law so they could help themselves to people's money if need be, I'm amazed anyone still keeps their money in Spanish banks, personally I wouldn't keep any money in the Eurozone, that currency is train wreck, a very slow one but one all the same.

 

@MistTiger Our system is similar to yours, if you live a constituency that always votes overwhelmingly for the same party your vote is basically worthless.

[MistTiger]

Quote: @MistTiger Our system is similar to yours, if you live a constituency that always votes overwhelmingly for the same party your vote is basically worthless.

 

Jim_uk, you are quite right in that context. However, in the US this is really not the case. Votes are very critical now. There a sharp division of nearly half the voters entrenched on each side with a small minority that floats back and forth depending on the issue and who is giving away the most free stuff. The final popular vote Talley paints a far different picture of how America voted 65,899,660 for Obama-Biden (51.1%) and 60,932,152 (47.2%) for Romney-Ryan. that has been overshadowed by the lopsided electoral college vote. Now you can see why I am LOL when people on this topic are screaming about the demise of the GOP. The numbers do not agree. A five million vote margin in an election in which 125 million voters cast ballots, is hardly a landslide for the Dems. It is not a mandate. It is a sharply divided country. The 60 million voters who voted GOP are NOT going to become Dems overnight and desert their party. The thoughts of a lot of people preaching the GOP is extinct is wishful thinking. Much like "we beat you, now you can never challenge us again". The Dems and GOP will be going at it again in 2014. The problem is that the battleground of congress is much different from that of the president in that local issues predominate and national issues are marginalized. In 2012, despite what the Dems wished, the local issues in the states voted the GOP into power in the house. That fact is indisputable. The GOP kept control of the house in which every seat was up for election. The GOP must have had some message that the voters approved of or they would have all been replaced. Now the way that the Dems are hoping that they will get the vote to move their way is to grow it by actual population demographic change. That is a possibility. That is why they are so aggressive in getting demographics that support them to vote while at the same time spewing propaganda that the GOP is dying hoping that those voters will think like you do that their vote doesn't count. Get enough opponent voters that will not vote because their vote "doesn't count" and you will win elections. That is the true strategy. Demoralization of your opponent. You automatically win if they don't fight. Now, everyone in the GOP that has done an autopsy on the 2012 presidential race has the same conclusion. The GOP ground game to motivate voters in 2012 sucked. Hopefully, that will not happen again in 2014 & 2016. There are enough controversial issues in the US to fire up and P@## off the GOP voters. The 2014 races will be very entertaining and very intense. Candidates are not going to be able to hide behind the broad issues of the US and point fingers at others, they will have to face their voters on their records in the context of local issues. A candidate advocating a popular national position that has no support in his voter area will not be elected because someone in another state wants them to vote a particular way. Isn't America great? We all don't have to vote like California, Texas, or Ohio, does on any issue. (Not that those states have done anything good or bad, they are just examples. i could have picked any three states.) WE get to vote like we want without regard to the opinions of those in other states. That has to be very frustrating for the radicals on both sides to know that they cannot direct those in other states to vote like they do. LOL

 

Just my opinion. Cheers!!!! V/R MistTiger

[HeyYou]

The voters aren't going to desert the party, the party is going to desert the voters. Consider: They have changed their minds about immigration reform, and are willing to accept a path to citizenship. They are openly discussing supporting gay marriage. (with a few notable exceptions....)

 

The balance of power in congress really didn't change overmuch. Makes ya wonder what americans REALLY want..... I may have voted for Obama, but, I won't be voting dem in '14. I don't want EITHER party to be fully in control in washington......