Tried going Stormcloak, and Failed.

[CyrusAmell]

I basically wanted to make a pure character with nuanced choices, and for what I had hoped would be my final major character I decided to go the path of an Archmage who would join up with the Stormcloaks. Normally I go with the Imperial Legion, there is a general happy feeling you get after the conclusion of the civil war on their side which is separated from the muddy feelings I always get going Stormcloak. But I thought it would be iconic, the Dragonborn siding with Ulfric to kick the Empire out of Skyrim and prepare to face off against the Dominion. What was there to be gained from keeping the Empire alive? Skyrim had been independent before. And where would it end? Would the Empire try to reconquer the Dominion, reintegrate Hammerfell, and perhaps stake their claims yet again in Blackmarsh and Elsweyr? More than just Skyrim's Independence, I thought I was also fighting for the right of self-government, for the proliferation of self-determination among free peoples. A new age of independent kingdoms ruled by Kings and Queens who are at one with the interests of their realm. I had believed that this was worth fighting for.

 

And so I escaped with Ralof, and ambushed any Imperial party escorting Stormcloak prisoners. And yet...

 

I can't bring myself to believe that a Stormcloak victory would truly be what is best. The civil war is an ugly affair, more so for the Stormcloaks. Jarl Balgruuf the Greater and Jarl Idgrod Ravencrone, my two favorite Jarls, suffer greatly at the wars conclusion as well as their families if one chooses to fight the Empire. Whats more, Skyrim is left in the hands of Vignar Gray-Mane, Skald the Elder, Dengeir of Stuhn, Jarl Korir, and Thongvor Silver-Blood all of whom are old, angry men who are set in their ways. Maybe if Balgruuf had just been able to be persuaded to join Ulfric if the player did so then perhaps the decision would not be so hard. But between the bad Jarls, the racist sentiments of the Stormcloaks (just try talking to an officer at their camps) and the utter uncertainty of what will become of humanity in the face of the Thalmor I feel as if the choice is damnably lopsided.

 

And now, after having met Ralof's family and spilled the blood of Imperial soldiers on numerous occasions, I am now considering joining the Imperial Legion. Its either that or start over on another character who has not killed any Imperials, but I do not want to do that because I have already poured 70 hours into my current game. And i wanted to say that I tried, I tried to like the Stormcloaks. I came up with every conceivable reason and it still doesn't stack up against the negatives.

 

It's silly, I know, but that's just me. Can I reconcile the fact that I have killed Legionnaires and yet still join the Legion?

Edited January 19, 2013 by CyrusAmell

[Niborino9409]

Why not? Making a decision like that would be better from a RP point of view, you have killed many good soldiers and want to make up for that by helping the Legion.

 

I have also tried to join the Stormcloaks but I always end up in the Legion instead. You cannot force yourself to like them. If you don´t agree with them you have to go against them! :biggrin:

Edited January 19, 2013 by Niborino9409

[CyrusAmell]

Why not? Making a decision like that would be better from a RP point of view, you have killed many good soldiers and want to make up for that by helping the Legion.

 

I have also tried to join the Stormcloaks but I always end up in the Legion instead. You cannot force yourself to like them. If you don´t agree with them you have to go against them! :biggrin:

 

I suppose I can always "make my decision" after I find those dossiers in the Thalmor Embassy.

[Niborino9409]

Its your decision! :biggrin:

 

Either way I wish you luck!

[rcavanah]

You know, you kind of have to RP it up to really feel like the Stormcloaks have any merit.

 

However, I think it IS possible to use the peace council to fix certain things, provided the right options come up. For instance, you can let the Stormcloaks keep the rift, to keep Jarl Laila in power instead of Maven Black-Briar. Then, Dengeir of Stuhn is the rightful Jarl of Falkreath, and I'd say he's no worse that Siddgeir, who essentially bought the position for himself. Personally, though Idgrod seems to be a very reasonable Jarl, Sorli the Builder is a good Jarl as well. And, of course, I feel like Vignar would be a perfectly good Jarl, and it's lessened only by the stronger connection you've forged with Balgruuf by the time you make that decision. Thongvor is bloodthirsty and unsuited for the Jarlship in any other town, but he does have a people to protect (even if that protection is a byproduct of his personal vendetta against the Forsworn), and I think a person of his demeanor might actually have its place in Markarth.

 

Yes, Brina Merilis is leaps and bounds better than Skald, as Kraldar is better than Korir, but those are minor holds.

 

But then, of course, I think the most heart-rending disappointment with a Stormcloak victory: Brunwulf Free-Winter doesn't become Jarl of Windhelm.

Edited January 19, 2013 by rcavanah

[Niborino9409]

I like Brunwulf Free-Winter! He wants to help the Dunmers of Windhelm! :thumbsup:

[rcavanah]

I like Brunwulf Free-Winter! He wants to help the Dunmers of Windhelm! :thumbsup:

 

That's what I mean; he's the best thing about Imperial victory.

[AnimeOtaku102]

It really is a shame that the Civil War quests aren't as dynamic as they were originally intended to be. I could support Ulfric if I had the choice of winning over jarls via diplomatic means, because there's just enough ambiguity surrounding his development after he broke with the Thalmor that one could feasibly argue maybe he had a change of heart. Maybe he realized what he did in Markarth and in his impatience to rid Skyrim of the Thalmor and the Empire he tried to force matters by killing Torygg; things obviously didn't work out the way he hoped, but he bears the burdens of his sins while driving on to create a free Skyrim (not that I believe any of that).

 

But even if I manage to suspend my disbelief over Ulfric's sincerity, I keep running into that spiked roadblock called the jarls: Skald the Elder (warmonger, religious zealot), Vignar Grey-Mane (hypocrite, traitor), Thongvor Silver-blood (family of slavers), and Korir (can understand why he's like that, but his attitude still sucks). I don't actually mind Dengeir, he's at least willing to accept he's wrong when presented with proof.

 

Then there's causing Balgruuf and Idgrod to be exiled, of course.

 

I wonder if there are enough assets left in the game to implement diplomatic solutions... or jarl promotions unrelated to the Civil War if something terribly unfortunate (har) like Skald the Elder accidentally mistaking a dagger for his morning meal.

[RighthandofSithis]

I can already forsee this becoming the next 'Imperial V Stormcloak' thread.

 

I don't mind, I enjoy the debate.

[Kraeten]

I can already forsee this becoming the next 'Imperial V Stormcloak' thread.

 

I don't mind, I enjoy the debate.

 

Well I imagine you'd have to, to debate as often and extensively as you do. :tongue: Can't say I have the patience and tolerance for it myself, though I somehow keep forgetting that fact when I involve myself. :laugh: