Internet Filtering In Australia

[Maigrets]

I was a bit dubious about posting this topic, but since political discussions are allowed I'm wondering how well informed Aussies here are about the issue of compulsory Internet Filtering.

 

This is a long article but pretty comprehensive:

http://libertus.net/censor/ispfiltering-au-govplan.html

 

The most up to date info I could find. As of two days ago:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,...5014239,00.html

 

I've seen some Americans commenting on the above page, I found an article about it in the New York Times and it seems to news around the rest of the world.

 

The Federal Govt here has introduced compulsory Internet Filtering as of today, or at least that's the date my ISP says it's starting. Right at the time when people are preparing for Christmas and have more to worry about than what's happening on the Net. Why not after Christmas in January when the holiday season is over?

 

It's introducing filters from ISP level to supposedly filter out sites they deem inappropriate for children to see. I'm all for protecting children but the Govt has to be naive to think the people they are aiming at will stop what they are doing. They just dig a bigger hole to operate in.

 

The biggest ISP here, Telstra, and many others are against it, but there is no opting out and the trial goes for six weeks.

 

There is much opposition and the Govt won't release a list of banned sites. This is going to affect gaming, business, the general public and pretty much anyone who uses the Internet at all in this country.

 

Torrent sites and P2P Networks are also affected and many people don't realize these are not only used for illegal purposes.

I know someone who plays World of Warcraft online and his LEGAL updates and patches come via Torrent so he's going to be very upset when he finds out there may be problems updating his game.

 

My ISP and news articles report that it potentially can slow internet speeds by as much as 75% and more, increase consumer costs, and 1000's of innocent sites could also be blacklisted or filtered out because of content the filter may deem inappropriate.

 

Our currently elected Govt was elected in November 2007 and if this goes ahead this will very likely be their last term in office. There are rallies planned for January and March and this could turn into a fiasco on a monumental scale.

 

Aussies should make sure they are informed because this could very well have a very adverse affect on their internet activities.

 

Edit: More up to date Info says the pilot will start in Mid January. I guess we'll see what happens then.

[Syntax1985]

ISP blacklisting has been around since people found out they could charge for the internet. this is just another step towards that.

 

i don't agree with it, but i can see where's its coming from. what i don't understand is how they're hiding behind the excuse its for child protection, when every single browser and ISP currently offers child protection locks. meh this is what happens when parents fail to actually parent once in a while.

 

In regards to blocked torrent sites - makes no difference. just because a few sites get blocked doesn't mean new ones don't pop up all the time, torrents can be traded via emails etc., it wont stop it. and as torrents don't use a individual server ( like other P2P ), each torrent is unblockable.

 

The whole movement just seems like a minor inconvenience.

 

And no there's nothing in the proposal that would affect business. unless its illegal porn your selling.

[Vagrant0]

And no there's nothing in the proposal that would affect business. unless its illegal porn your selling.

On the contrary. As there is some entity which has control of what sites are deemed "appropiate", it is fairly easy for that company to instill their own beliefs onto others. This can already be observed with a few "child lock" programs available for purchase in the U.S. Some of them are sponsored by groups involved with religion or politics, and have thus blacklisted any and all sites which present something other than what that group wants people to see. For instance, religious sites (obviously), womens liberation (even history), medical sites, including alternative medicine, certain mass media sites, many legal, non-porn/sin-based discussion groups, and so on. In a sense, the people who are running these things decide for you, what you can and cannot see, even if it is for a purely educational purpose.

 

And like it or not, even porn is a business. It doesn't necessarily have anything too unusual either. Although the Aussies have a bit more open approach to nudity (atleast compared to the US), several legal porn sites may appear on that list just because it's inappropiate for children. The bigger issue here however is anything remotely violent may be more restricted. You forget, like Germany, Austraiia has a lower tolerance for how much violence is acceptable. So things like MMOs, Gaming sites, youtube, and such may be at the risk of being blocked.

 

As for legal P2P. Simply, there are several legal companies which use P2P as a means of distributing updates, and other legal software simply because they then don't need to have as much of a transfer load on their own servers when those products go live. P2P is rather efficient from that end since everyone who is downloading those files are also sharing information with other people downloading the same file, so rather than a single server uploading 100mb to 3000 people, it uploads considderably less because most of those 3000 people are lessening the need for that server to act as the sole source. As data needs will be getting higher while the infastructure remains limited, P2P may eventually be the only way for obtaining large amounts of data quickly. As such, any company who is cut off from such an initiative, would likely appeal for some sort of adjustment to the rules.

 

As for illegal P2P, while blocking P2P traffic can, in some cases prevent illegal downloading of content, it will only be preventing those who are new to the process, and are not smart enough to realize that there are other, more secure ways of sharing files. So in a sense, all it will really stop are some of those 12-24 year old kids who are downloading movies and songs the quick and wasy way. While you may think that a really good thing, you forget one thing. Most of the harm from illegal downloads is not that kid who downloads a movie, watches it once, then deletes it. The real harm to the market is the kid who downloads the movie, burns it a few dozen times to DvDs, and then sells them to their friends at school. That later instance may see some decline, but those people who have several burners running non-stop know of other, more secure ways to download a file than through torrenting, simply because torrenting is rather unsafe if you're doing something illegal. It would probably make some people scared to death if they realized how much information about them could be obtained just from using a torrent. And as there are companies who are activly looking for people who are breaking copyright laws, the chances of their ISP being notified about illegal activity, even for a once or twice thing, is rather high.

 

But really, I see this more as a limitation of free speech, and an insult to any adult in Australia, since it affects everyone, regardless of age, education, or mental capacity. Honestly, what is so bad about some of the porn out there that says that a mature person cannot handle viewing it... Disturbing, yes, but they should have the freedom to decide if they want to see it. I honestly hope that this doesn't catch on anywhere else, and causes too many problems to be practical there. It's far more useful to educate people on how to properly censor themselves, and restrict what their children have access to, than it is to block everything and institute your own post-modern dark age.

[Maigrets]

Quote: "The whole movement just seems like a minor inconvenience."

 

The invasion of privacy itself is more than a "minor inconvenience".

 

The potential for increased ISP costs to the consumer, slower speeds and more and more sites being added to the "Blacklist" is more than a small issue.

We already have the slowest and least efficient Internet services in the Western world and even some Third World countries.

 

We won't have any idea which sites are being blocked and this can potentially include medical sites, movies, games and many others.

 

In actual fact Fallout 3 was initially banned here because of it's explicit drug use, so they said. It has since been allowed for sale and I have a copy on order, and so I haven't seen what the content is yet.

 

There are lists of books, games, movies and even music artists whose content has been refused here. A number of these publications may or may not have questionable content depending on your point of view, but everyone knows that banning something makes it even more attractive or sought after.

Tell a kid not to do something or they can't see or listen to certain things, and the first thing he or she wants to do is find out why. I was a kid once and I know from experience that curiosity can be more harmful than education.

 

I'm not a parent, but I've been around long enough (over 50 years)to know that education is a better deterrent than hiding the "naughty stuff" from the public. How many times has that been proven over the centuries? Hide it and people want it more and find alternate ways to get it.

 

As Vagrant0 said, it most certainly will affect business and he has described it all much better than I can.

 

It starts with the excuse of blocking porn and other sites that may be detrimental to children, but when we aren't allowed to know what is being banned and what is being added to future lists our privacy and right to choose is thrown out the window.

 

Other minority groups will start pressuring the Govt and then there will be no end to it because how can one group be heard and not another. There is already movement by other groups to add what they see as objectionable to the filters.

 

It's even been said that Australia is a "testing ground" for other countries in this and depending on the results other countries may well follow suit in some form or another.

 

In the end Minority rules, not the majority. It starts at the bottom and works it's way up through Local Govt until it reaches the top. There are prime examples of this just in my local area, but since some of them include religious views I can't mention them here.

 

There's plenty of info and protesting about this filtering on the Net, but strangely enough our TV Networks are curiously quiet about it and no-one in Govt is answering questions. Especially so close to the start of the pilot trial.

 

Dark ages...yes it could well be a return if this goes ahead and not only for us in Australia.

[bben46]

It's now passed the deadline. Hello? Australia, are you still there? Or are we being blocked?

 

I'm hopeing for some major public outrage over this. But really not expecting it as the Aussie government (as well as most others) has already shown it has no compunction about taking away peoples rights.

[Maigrets]

It's now passed the deadline. Hello? Australia, are you still there? Or are we being blocked?

 

I'm hopeing for some major public outrage over this. But really not expecting it as the Aussie government (as well as most others) has already shown it has no compunction about taking away peoples rights.

 

Hello,

Yes we're still here. :smile:

 

The so called trial has been delayed until mid January and there are supposed to be rallies and protests to follow.

 

The strange thing is there was a rally in November, but I never knew it was going to happen and only numbers in the hundreds turned up so I've since found out.

I watch the news on TV and on the Net and it was never mentioned to my knowledge. I suppose that's why not many people turned up. They didn't know about it.

 

I only found out because my ISP sent me a notification and a survey a week or so before Christmas.

 

I always thought we were the "Lucky Country" as the old saying here goes, but since I've been doing some research on how much we have been censored over the years I'm dismayed by it to say the least.

 

The current Govt was only elected mainly because the previous incumbents introduced draconian Work Place Laws that took away the freedom and rights of workers. They even banned Unions who were the only groups to stand up for their rights.

One good thing they did was get the country out of debt, but the billions of $$ they recouped was sitting in a vault somewhere for who knows what reason.

 

Now we a replacement Govt that is potentially much worse. This Filtering is going to cost many millions even though according to Polls 80% of the population don't want it. Our health care and education system needs a major overhaul, not to mention many other more important things, before making decisions on what we can watch or see according to some ill informed politicians. We'll soon be back in debt since the surplus gained by the outgoing Govt is slipping away like water only a year into their term.

 

Voting is compulsory in Australia which I strongly disagree with. All you have to do is get your name crossed off the list to avoid a penalty. It doesn't matter if you actually vote or not since at this stage no-one is watching over your shoulder to see who you voted for if anyone.

 

I've written to my Member of Parliament and signed online petitions, but knowing how apathetic people can be this will probably slide through unnoticed by the majority. Then the complaints will start. After it's too late.

 

There's another stupid saying that I think will be removed from the language before long.

"She'll be right, mate".

In other words, don't worry about it or do anything, it'll work out by itself. I think those times are gone forever.

 

I wonder what else is being kept from us? So much for Democracy and a voice for the people.

If I was able to I would move to New Zealand like I've seen a number of people say in their comments on protest pages.

[NightwolfAA2k5]

I hope it gets the boot to be honest, its the last thing we need down here.

[bben46]

Glad to see you are still with us. If it's like the US, the 'news' is highly biased in what they bother to print. They probably see a cut in internet use as a plus because people will pay more attention to their agenda.

 

We are pulling for you here. Hope it gets defeated as as this would (hopefully) set a precedent for the rest of the world.

[Maigrets]

Thanks for the support, it's appreciated.

 

I've been reading daily updates and it looks like this will go ahead regardless. The pilot is pretty much definite anyway and because the debate has been going on for some time, with little public support, I can't see the Govt backing down and losing face now.

I would like to be proven wrong though.

 

This proposal has to be passed or rejected by a 100% vote in the Senate and the Family First Party (Religious Fundamentalists) who have only one Senator, have a huge amount of power and backing.

 

Other child and family welfare organizations are against it however. Family First has their priorities stuck in the dark ages.

 

Family First are pushing hard for this to go through and they want the list of banned sites extended to gambling, info on euthanasia, anorexia, sex education etc. This would most likely block the help sites for these and other health and educational pages.

 

As far as P2P and Torrents go, I had no idea just how many applications use it, legally. Skype for one will go down here since it uses torrents for fast transfer of info.

 

I know one thing - you'd have to have a thick skin and no conscience (in some cases) to be a politician, because I wonder how some of them sleep at night. Not to mention the affect on their families from the derision and backlash that's happening over this issue.

 

I just feel saddened that this can happen here, in this day and age. It's like Sci Fi novels from way back earlier last century when things they wrote about seemed like pure fantasy. How many of them have come true?

[Werewolf334]

Not sure if it would help in this case, but I have used Peerguardian 2 to prevent a lot of the filtering and unknown tracking IPs going through your computer...